The Vaccinated Scout Law

Bet you didn’t know the Scout Law is really about the importance of getting your kids vaccinated.

OK, that’s not true.

But that didn’t stop our friends at the San Rafael, Calif.-based Marin Council from creating the tongue-in-cheek Vaccinated Scout Law.

It’s a fun take on the vaccination discussion that’s been going on nationwide — and here on Bryan on Scouting where I discussed which immunizations are required by the BSA.

The Vaccinated Scout Law is the Scout Law you know and love, but Marin Council has related each of the original 12 points to the subject of vaccinations.

Example: For Obedient, Marin Council has added, “He listens and follows the directions of his doctor and public health officials so gets vaccinated.”

Here goes …

The Vaccinated Scout Law

When it comes to vaccinations,

A Scout is …

Trustworthy: He can be counted on to do the right thing when it comes to public health and gets vaccinated.

Loyal: He looks out for others and wards off threats to his community by being vaccinated.

Helpful: He can be part of eradicating disease and protecting others simply by getting vaccinated.

Friendly: He is a friend to all and doesn’t want anybody to suffer so makes sure he gets vaccinated.

Courteous: He knows a simple act can make someone else’s life better so he gets vaccinated.

Kind: He won’t needlessly hurt anyone and to make sure he doesn’t, he gets vaccinated.

Obedient: He listens and follows the directions of his doctor and public health officials so gets vaccinated.

Cheerful: He knows that a couple of shots will only hurt for a bit so he smiles when he gets vaccinated.

Thrifty: He recognizes prevention costs far less than treatment so saves money by getting vaccinated.

Brave: He faces his fear of getting shots because he knows it is the right thing to do to get vaccinated.

Clean: He wants to be healthy and keep others healthy so he makes sure he gets vaccinated.

Reverent: He respects religious beliefs, but knows that unless his faith forbids it, he gets vaccinated.

Important read

Which immunizations the BSA requires and which it recommends


Hat tip: Thanks to David Berry, the volunteer who serves as chairman of the BSA’s medical team, and the BSA’s Richard Bourlon, for sharing this with me.

110 Comments

  1. Not funny. This is a serious legal rights vs health rights issue that the Scouts on an official nature should not be getting involved with beyond stating basic BSA requirements. I’m not an anti-vaxxer but do see that an individual’s rights and possible religious rights are being trampled on, which I believe is a Constitutional issue. This blog and that council’s proclamation should be deleted as is isn’t respectful or courteous of others belief’s.

    • So you would trump someone’s right to free speech because you disagree with it?
      If an individual wants to belong to certain groups they have to accept the requirements of the group. That does not trample individual rights. You have the right not to join the group. Religious rights aren’t even an issue as there is clearly an exception.
      Your post makes you seem intolerant and uninformed, I don’t know how that helps sell your point.

    • Dear Shawn, it was not a proclamation. As Bryan state, it’s tongue-in-cheek. How many of us have used humor to relate a serious subject–much more palatable than being a hard-liner sometimes?

    • By choosing not to vaccinate yourself or your children, you put yourself and others at unnecessary risk. Lack of vaccination allows diseases to persist and spread, instead of being eradicated. It’s also important to note that not everyone CAN be vaccinated (like infants, children with cancer, those with immune system diseases, etc.), and by choosing not to vaccinate yourself, you help put those people in danger.

    • Funny, you menton legal rights. I think national will use this for its arguement.

      Boy Scouts of America et al. v. Dale, 530 U.S. 640 (2000), was a case of the Supreme Court of the United States decided on June 28, 2000, that held that the constitutional right to freedom of association allows a private organization like the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) to exclude a person from membership when “the presence of that person affects in a significant way the group’s ability to advocate public or private viewpoints.”

      The BSA, as a private organization, can deny membership from anyone that affects the groups ability to advocate on public (health) or private (sexual?) viewpoints.

      Do you really want to be the test case?

    • Yes, we do have a right to not vaccinate, but BSA has the right to not allow youth or adults that are not vaccinated in the program, just like not allowing adult homosexuals in the program. It’s a private org.

  2. This is the most horrible use of this website that i have ever seen. There has never been proof that vaccines do not cause autism, just a lot of noise but no science. my son was severly affected with autism after his vaccines – i wish there were answers but there are none from the entire medical community, they really don’t know and neither do you. Bryan – i have lost all respect for you and do not consider you a Scouter for taking this important subject so lightly.

      • There’s plenty of proof that gut dybiosis is present in people with autism and there’s plenty of proof that measles vaccines cause gut dysbiosis in susceptible people. The problem is, is that as soon as Merck gets wind of a paper that might hurt their sales, they pressure the institutional home of the publisher that they will cut funding to them unless the paper is withdrawn. You might have noticed that “science: is for sale now? Yeah.

        I wish it were JUST autism, but it’s allergies, ADHD, asthma, rashes, LDs….

    • Really sorry about your son, but it was not vaccines that caused it. Yes, there are numerous studies. Is there any proof that drinking formula when a baby does not cause autism? Bryan and BSA are siding with very clear scientific consensus.

    • There is NO scientific evidence that vaccines cause autism. None. Nil. Nada. Vaccination is arguably the single most important advance in the history of public health. You are correct that the medical community does not currently know what causes autism, but they do know that vaccines are NOT the cause. Please – I am begging you – stop spreading misinformation about something as important as vaccinations.

    • Of course he was diagnosed with autism chronologically after being vaccinated. However, correlation does not establish causation. Children are vaccinated beginning at a very young age, but autism doesn’t begin to show until about age 3. You might as well blame the diapers you put on him as blame vaccines.

    • Look, there is no credible evidence that vaccines do cause autism, either. The only “scientific” evidence that there is a link between autism and vaccines came from a deeply-flawed study, conducted by a quack doctor, who had been bribed by a lawyer suing a vaccine corporation, has since lost his license.

      But don’t just take my word for it–I’ve attached a number of links to credible sources that thoroughly discredit that hypothesis:

      http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concerns/Autism/antigens.html
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o65l1YAVaYc
      http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/07/130716-autism-vaccines-mccarthy-view-medicine-science/

    • Coincidence is not causal. I am very sorry for you’re son’s situation but one point of reference doesn’t prove a linkage. There is considerable science behind not just showing no link between autism and vaccinations, but even suggests a decrease in autism in highly vaccinated populations.

    • Yeesh. Really?!

      There is *extensive* evidence that vaccines are *not* linked to autism. It is the strong consensus of the scientific community.

      To list just a few:
      * Taylor B., et al. (1999) “Autism and measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine: no epidemiological evidence for a causal association” The Lancet 353:9169, 12 June 1999, Pages 2026–2029. doi:10.1016/S0140-6736(99)01239-8 [sample size 498 persons with autism]
      * Frank DeStefano, Robert T Chen. “Negative association between MMR and autism” The Lancet, Volume 353, Issue 9169, 12 June 1999, Pages 1987-1988
      * Flaherty, D. K. (2011) “The Vaccine-Autism Connection: A Public Health Crisis Caused by Unethical Medical Practices and Fraudulent Science” Annuals of Pharmacotherapy 45:10 pp.1302-1304 doi: 10.1345/aph.1Q318 [Key quote: “The alleged autism-vaccine connection is, perhaps, the most damaging medical hoax of the last 100 years.”]
      * DeStefano, F, et al. (2013) “Increasing Exposure to Antibody-Stimulating Proteins and Polysaccharides in Vaccines Is Not Associated with Risk of Autism” Journal of Pediatrics pp. 561–567http://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(13)00144-3/pdf [Perhaps the biggest, most authoritative study, conducted, in part, by the CDC. Sample size of more than 3,000.]

      See also:
      * “Vaccines do Not Cause Autism” Centers for Disease Control and Prevention http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism/ [
      * Hamilton, J. “Number Of Early Childhood Vaccines Not Linked To Autism” National Public Radio http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/03/29/175626824/the-number-of-early-childhood-vaccines-not-linked-to-autism

      The “anti-vaxxing” controversy started with Andrew Wakefield, via an article published in The Lancet in 1998 (which also explains the purported “bowel” connection mentioned by some commenters, as Wakefield was hired to find evidence to support a lawsuit related to gesture-intestinal distress) The article was later thoroughly discredited. Journalist Brian Deer demonstrated that in addition to poor methodology Wakefield also falsified many of his findings in the study based on only 12 (yes, twelve) patients and minor temporal association (stuff happened close together, but one did not necessarily cause the other). One by one, the paper’s co-authors withdrew their support for the paper and its conclusions, and the paper was officially retracted by the journal in 2010.

      In addition to forging data, other problems with Wakefield’s sample included undisclosed familial ties between 2 of the 12 patients (they were brothers), mis-representing autism diagnoses for at least 3 patients, not disclosing that parents of one patient were active campaigners against the MMR vaccine, incorrectly describing developmentally delayed patients as “previously normal”, and parents of another were blaming vaccination. (See, e.g., http://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c5347 )

      In any case, the whole of “scientific evidence” claimed by ant-vaxxers in top, peer-reviewed medical journals rests on Wakefield’s single article about 12 patients, data for most of was fraudulently altered. No study since has been able to replicate those findings. In fact, multiple credible studies, each with thousands of participants have demonstrated no observable statistical link.

      (See also, Goodlee, F. “Clear evidence of falsification of data should now close the door on this damaging vaccine scare” http://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c7452)

      So, can we please stop believing there is no evidence against an autism–vaccine link? Study after study has been unable to find a link, or has significant statistical results demonstrating no link.

  3. Seriously, you went there Bryan? This is disrepectful to every family who has had to live with vaccine injury, or objects (some religiously) to the toxic materials and foreign DNA included in them. Maybe I missed the tongue in cheek part, I went right to insulted.

    • Bryan didn’t write this – he was passing this on. I think it’s great personally. While my own children have not been negatively affected by their vaccines, I do know people who have. They have only withheld the 1 vaccine that caused problems, not all. As for the toxic materials – that’s life as far as I’m concerned. You might as well never leave your bubble house if you don’t want to be exposed to toxins.

    • Sarah, you have been scaremongered. The probability of being injured by vaccines is very very small, so much that if you chose not to vaccine because of it, then you should choose not to walk out of your house every day.

      • Let’s say it IS 1 in a million. That is 1 in a million for dozens of horrible side effects… every single vaccine… for each of 68 required per child. See how quickly that actually adds up?

        And what is worse: it simply NOT one in a million that are injured. The WHO lists “serious” reactions for the MMR alone that occur in 1 in 2000 (that is 500 in a million)… or even 1 in 30,000. http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/initiative/tools/MMR_vaccine_rates_information_sheet.pdf

        The WHO says that the measles rash itself happens 5 out of ever 100 times. So, let’s do the math:

        In 2012 3,952,841 babies were born. The CDC says 91.9% of those are fully UTD on their MMR. 91.9% of those getting the MMR is 3,632,661. Let’s figure the statistic of up to 5% of those getting the measles rash directly following the MMR? 181,633 children. 180 thousand children in the US getting measles from the vaccine being UTD on their MMR at 12 months. None of which are counted as measles cases.

        5 in 100 get the rash
        http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/initiative/tools/MMR_vaccine_rates_information_sheet.pdf

        91.9% of all children UTD on MMR
        http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6334a1.htm

        Babies born in 2012.
        http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr62/nvsr62_09.pdf

        Then, I decided to take the same year, same population, same percentages… and work with their meningitis data: Aseptic meningitis types: Jeryl Lynn – 36 cases Leningrad-3 – 3633 cases Leningrad-Zagreb – 3269 cases Urabe Orchitis – 1780 cases Aseptic meningitis total = 8718 cases from the MMR, according to the WHO’s statistics and the 2012 birth date and MMR vaccination percentages.

        Want a bit more…? About 10% of meningitis cases will end in death… if they are caught, and the parents aren’t simply told that “screaming and fever after vaccinations is perfectly normal”. 10% that year? 872 deaths. At the height of the measles epidemic in America, the CDC said that 4 million children got the measles, but and about 500 died from it.
        http://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/faqs.html

        We traded, at the very worst 500 measles deaths for 872 meningitis deaths… and that is just death from one possible serious side-effects.

        What else did we get? 10% of people who get the MMR react with arthritis: 363,266.

        Seizures? 1210

        Thrombocytopenia (a sever reaction that causes a disease where you have severely low platelet count, and may die of internal hemorrhaging)- 120 (1 in 30,000, NOT 1 in a million)

        http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/thrombocytopenia/basics/definition/con-20027170

        AND THIS IS JUST THE MMR! So, how many are injured? How many really die “second-hand” from every side-effect? How many do not die, but suffer far more than the measles (I’d take measles over arthritis any day!).

        And this is the chance AT EVERY INJECTION. A person gets the MMR 2-4 times in their life, every time facing the same possibility. If you miss the bullet once, you absolutely may not the second time. Ask the children who’s severe reaction was on their second round.

        Do you want me to compound the probabilities when we add the other dozens of vaccines?

        And that is just a handful of reactions from the MMR. Want more possible reactions? Some side effects listed in the vaccine insert itself: Vasculitis, Diabetes mellitus, Anaphylaxis, In women, “incidence rates for arthritis and arthralgia are generally higher than those seen in children (children: 0-3%; women: 12-26%),{17,56,57} and the reactions tend to be more marked and of longer duration. Symptoms may persist for a matter of months or on rare occasions for years”, Encephalitis, afebrile convulsions or seizures; ataxia; polyneuritis; polyneuropathy; ocular palsies; paresthesia, “Experience from more than 80 million doses of all live measles vaccines given in the U.S. through 1975 indicates that significant central nervous system reactions such as encephalitis and encephalopathy, occurring within 30 days after vaccination, have been temporally associated with measles vaccine “, ” Cases of aseptic meningitis have been reported to VAERS following measles, mumps, and rubella vaccination “, ” Stevens-Johnson syndrome; erythema multiforme; urticaria; rash; measles-like rash”, 
        http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/m/mmr_ii/mmr_ii_pi.pdf

        What about other issues:
        “Herd immunity” supposedly happens at 85%. Despite the media, This CDC report from 2013 says that America’s coverage is at a RECORD HIGH. Overall, 91.9% completely UTD on the MMR. They blame the current outbreak on unvaccinated people, but the fact is that there are MORE vaccinated people NOW than in 2000 when they said measles was “eradicated” (although it wasn’t). The % of vaccinated people has risen every year.
        “The percentage of children who received no vaccinations remained below 1.0% (0.7%) ”
        ” The results of the 2013 NIS indicate that vaccination coverage among children aged 19–35 months increased relative to 2012 ”
        http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6334a1.htm

        And what is more: Who is getting these personal exemptions? Oh, I associate with hundreds of them, and every single one of them would tell you that they get the PERSONAL exemption after seeing their child or themselves personally have a horrible reaction to a vaccine. The problem is that doctors are refusing to report those reactions (although they are required by law to do so), and people are unable to get the medical exemptions that they actually need.

        Have you been to VAERS.HHS.GOV? Even the CDC says that only between 1-10% of vaccine reactions are reported by doctors, DESPITE the fact that it is the law to do so. Do you understand the implications of this? That means that the CDC is aware that 90-99% of people who SHOULD get a MEDICAL exemption cannot, because the reaction wasn’t properly documented. Every vaccine says that if you had a previous reaction, not to get the vaccines again. It is the same as when you initially react to an allergen. Every subsequent exposure to what caused your initial reaction puts you at risk for an even worse reaction, including the possibility of death. Until we can be assured that 100% of those people who had a previous reaction will be reported, and that 100% of those who had a reaction will get a medical exemption, this bill WILL be forcing people to injection something into their bodies that they absolutely medically should not. People WILL die, and people WILL be injured for life.

        So you can stand there, insulting others for being “ignorant”, when you don’t know what you are talking about, because it is a free country… but you are flat-out WRONG.

        Read the vaccine inserts. Jump around on the CDC website. Or the FDA, WHO, NIH, or the lovely pubmed.

        Would you like 100 .gov links to peer-reviewed studies to show you why some people are standing up and saying no..? Because I have them.

  4. Linking vaccinations to scouting is nothing new. I vaguely remember my cub-scout sign-up being in the same location/same evening as the polio vaccination.

    It used to be that those families who suffered vaccine injury understood that doing their duty resulted in others’ lives saved. (Most of them remembered a friend or family member in an iron lung … or worse.)

  5. It is ALL of our duty to “take the risk”, though so very, very small, for the protection of our society as a whole. As Scouts are often in close quarters, it is even MORE important to be sure that they are all FULLY protected. Scouts believe in science, not unfounded speculation.

    • Thanks, Robinson. That’s why the BSA (not me acting alone) has taken a stance recommending vaccines for all Scouts. Scouts are in close quarters, so the BSA Health and Safety team made the recommendations I linked to above. Scouts are allowed to say no to vaccines, as long as they fill out the appropriate form.

      • I do support the idea of vaccinations. However, when I was younger, one of the vaccines that I had messed up the tissue in my shoulder causing an irritation that still bugs me 7 years later. Despite this, I still choose to get vaccinated for certain diseases. I think it would be good to clarify that while society’s needs are important and need to be met, BSA (and the USA) does not put them before individual needs as that is a socialist and communist idea. Hence all the immunizations, other than tetanus, are recommended by the BSA.

        It is my understanding that the BSA’s position is: As long as there is not religious or health need from the individual as he sees it, then get immunized.

        Bryan, am I wrong in saying that this is the BSA’s stance?

      • I do support the idea of vaccinations. However when I was younger, one of the vaccines that I had messed up the tissue in my shoulder causing an irritation that still bugs me 7 years later. Despite this, I still choose to get vaccinated for certain diseases. I think it would be good to clarify that while society’s needs are important and need to be met, BSA (and the USA) does not put them before individual needs as that is a socialist and communist idea. Hence all the immunizations, other than tetanus, are recommended by the BSA.

        It is my understanding that the BSA’s position is: As long as there is not a religious or health need from the individual as he sees it, then get immunized.

        Bryan, am I right in saying that this is the BSA’s stance?

        • You’re right, DS. There are exceptions made for those with health or religious needs. Otherwise, the BSA recommends several immunizations and requires the one for tetanus.

      • Adults who were vaccinated, as opposed to those who have had the diseases, negate ‘herd immunity’ as if such a thing existed. Also, you people who have been vaccinated recently with attenuated viruses are a hazard to me!

        Former Scout leader and mother of five Scouters.

  6. The scouts in California should be vaccinated. With all the illegals coming in with all kinds of diseases, who are now scouts, they need to be protected. Teach them about Honor, Truth and Obedience to the Law. As far as Bryan publishing but not writing this article, as senior editor he has the responsibility and right to refuse any article. LIKE ANY OTHER SCOUT OR SCOUTER, BRYAN DOES NOT HAVE TO GO ALONG WITH THE CROWD.

    • Please keep “Scouter” and “Professional” in different categories. Professionals get paid to do Scouting, Scouters get to pay to volunteer. There is a significant difference between the two.

  7. If you read the linked article, you’ll see that BSA actually has a fairly permissive and exceptionally reasonable vaccination policy.

    I have been around this program for a long time. We have had scouts who have medical reasons not be vaccinated. We have had scouts who have philosophical reasons not to be vaccinated. We have been able to accommodate those under the BSA’s guidelines.

    It is unfortunate that you let your feathers get ruffled. Whether you choose to vaccinate is your decision. For most people, however, vaccinations make a lot of sense. From a community health perspective, they do far less damage than the diseases they prevent.

    • “They do far less damage than the diseases they prevent” That’s pretty easy to say when you are not the one dealing with the results. As a person who had the Measles, I can tell you it was nothing compared to what I’ve went through as a parent of a child with Autism for 30 years. The fact that this adult child who I have to care for and will always have to care for and have had to make provisions for beyond my life, because he will never be able to function on his own. Those of us who are a little older can actually remember that measles wasn’t nearly the deadly disease we are making it out to be,
      As much as the public sentiment is out there saying the science has proven no linkage, it’s pure falsehood and propaganda. That is merely the result of scientists deciding that the risks are lower than that of vaccination, not any science disproving anything. As a matter of fact, disproving anything scientifically is far more difficult to do. In reality, there are many, many studies showing the potential of a link, either casual or catalytic in nature. None has been proven, but there is a far greater reluctance to do serious research to validate or invalidate it. Instead the nation responds with a media blitz attacking parents from all sides. It’s sad to see this blog jump in that fray.
      Of course, Robinson Tysziwitz’ comment is the most egregious of all. If we want others to “take the risk” than we should be providing resources for those who fall out of the odds, but instead we offer immunity to the manufacturers so they have no responsibility to continue to manage the safety of their products – unlike any other manufacturer in the country.
      If you really want to look at the real science, you need to recognize what the real killers in these diseases are – hygiene and malnutrition. That’s why Measles kill in other places but it isn’t killing in the US. Let’s use science to do actual research and stop merely looking at medical records to say there is no link and find out what the link is.

  8. This is disgusting. As a Cubmaster and a mother (and a medical provider) with a severely vaccine injured family member, I would never promote or encourage a medical choice in this way. Shaming them and using the core values of Scouting as a means for conformity is wrong. I would love to see something unbiased. Maybe something which gave the boys a reason to do their own research into each disease, treatments and prevention. How about ways the boys can change the living environment? Nutritional health is far superior to medical intervention in the realm of disease.

  9. A scout is educated.
    We used to have 30-40 vaccine manufacturers back around the turn of the century. We now have four: Pfizer, Merck, Sanofi Pasteur, & Glaxosmithkline. It’s called an oligopoly. Oligopolies have their own market structure.

    2013 revenue in billions:
    Phizer: $51.6
    Merck: $44.1
    Sanofl Pasteur: $32.9
    Glaxosmithkline: $26.5

    This is what’s called an oligarchy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligarchy

    Very few companies rule the market and set trends, set policies. If you think doctors set policies, think again. It’s businessmen who are in it for the dollar. Don’t kid yourself; doctors have spoken out against all sorts of medical policies and will continue to do so; it will only get worse. The vaccine industry is merely a big power-hungry Big Four who don’t want to relinquish control over your life. If you can’t see it as a business venture and nothing more, I feel sorry for you. Vaccines are just one oligarchy the youth of America will face, Do your economics research before you push support of criminal organizations.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_three_(economics)

    • And if you think the government will protect the consumer… Keep in mind the former head of the CDC, Dr. Julie Gerberding, now works for Merck as president of the company’s vaccine division.

  10. As a former Army medic, this Scouter appreciates the attempt at humor in this one.
    I’ve been at weekend camporees where “da rulz” were taken to extreme; example: in addition to the troop carrying medical exams/shot records, and parent permission slips (they didn’t want to accept permissions signed by legal guardians), TWO copies of each were to be turned in to camporee HQ, “In case the unit leadership is not present and there’s an emergency.” These documents were not returnable at the end of the event.
    Oh. Yeah. I “needed” a Yellow Fever shot when my military orders came for transfer to Germany, even though nobody ever heard of that serious disease existing there.

    • You can’t predict who is ‘healthy’ and who is not until they start testing every one of us for mitochondrial disease, chemical sensitivity, metal metabolism and immune system defects. That husband who was just awared $7.2M in the vaccine lottery had a wife who was ‘healthy’ until she got her shots for a planned trip.

      • And this is what that husband had to say about it:

        Schutte’s attorney, Leland Dempsey, says the money comes from the National Vaccine Injury Compensation program, which was set up for cases for people injured by a vaccine.

        “The legal system that it’s been established on is not based on fault,” Dempsey said.

        Schutte is well aware.

        “What happened to Carolyn is a freak accident,” said Schutte, who has a background in medical research.

        He is adamantly in favor of vaccinations, especially for children, despite what has happened to his wife.

        “The damages these diseases do are much greater than any potential risk of getting vaccinated against them,” Schutte said.

        The money the Schutte’s received will be spread out annually over a 20 year period. The money covers the loss of her income and helps pay for her costly care.

        The Schutte’s lawyer also says these cases are relatively rare, as very few people’s immune systems respond negatively to vaccinations.

  11. Correlation does not imply causation! This is a phrase used in science and statistics to emphasize that a correlation between 2 variables does not necessarily imply that 1 causes the other. The latest study indicates that genetics is 99% of the causation of autism, and the “rise” in autism is a function of better diagnois then in the past. In order words: Vaccines have nothing to do with causing autism! Even the doctor who published the initial study linking the 2 has recanted his study and admitted it was fraudulent! On the other hand deseases like German Measles (My mother suffered from it before there was a vaccine) can have effects even unto the children of those that suffered from the initial desease. So – anti-vaxxers – go get vaccinated already and protect those of us that can not get any more vacinations (I found out recently that my original measles vacine is not considered valid in the state I live in, bacuse it was the early 1964 version. My doctors recommend against me getting the new one now, due to the effects on my immune system of things like chemo and such. So, it is up to you to protect those of weakened immune systems).

    • Mr Eager, you are quoting some talking points that are less than factual. For example, the oft touted phrase “even the doctor who published the initial study linking the 2 has recanted his study and admitted it was fraudulent!” is both false and based on a false premise. One, the author of this oft touted study did not recant, nor is it the only research that has been done. That study was just one of hundreds. There are a large number of doctors and researchers who have found connections – not necessarily casual, but contributing or even catalytic.
      Nor is you 99% genetic cause even close to accurate. The real fact is that we don’t even really know what autism is or how it is caused, so we can’t even begin to identify real causes. Autism isn’t even necessarily a specific disease. It’s a collection of attributes that when combined provide a diagnosis. The reality is very likely that there are a number of things that contribute to the disorder. Anyone who makes the comment “Vaccines have nothing to do with causing autism!” is doing so with an ulterior motive.

      • Since you can call everyone else’s statements false, share your facts. I have done plenty research, and there are more things that Mr. Eager said that can be backed by legit studies than , amy argument you have said. If you are willing to state your OPINION as fact, back it up
        up. Otherwise, don’t call out someone’s opinion that you can’t refute factually.

        My husband is immuno-compromised. Those choosing to listen to hype and not research are putting my husband at risk. It is your choice. But what about my nephew who never got to see his 1st birthday because someone who CHOSE TO NOT vaccinate their child sent that child to daycare sick. My nephew was to young then to be vaccinated.

        I am sorry your son has autism. I have not seen research to link the two though.

      • I’m sorry you have not kept up and read about the doctor who started this whole piece of garbage having recanted, after being proven a fraud. As for the 99% study, that was published just last week from England and was a study involving twins. In fact, the facts I stated are quoted from that very article last week. I leave it to you to go do your own lookup of that article. As for the German Measles issue I quoted – that is a personal experience. My mother died of the effects caused by German measles at an age much too young. Numerous studies that now exist blame her early contraction of diabetis on the German Measles. I and 1 of my brothers suffer some effects from her illness to this day. My other brother and sister suffer some other effects. So, before you start calling others wrong, you better do some research, because everything I said is backed up in the very latest studies, which were done with the proper scienctific controls.

      • Jamminman, ineed he did not recant, he lost his license because the study was found to be fraudulent. This guy, Andrew Wakefield, is the start of all this antivax stuff and therefore responsible for many lives as well as for creating a myth. No, there are not hundreds of studies linking vaccines to autism, there are hundreds that disprove any link. Suggest you start following some real science sites such as Scientific American or Science Based Medicine.

  12. As a pediatric nurse and a mother of 4 fully vaccinated children I appreciate this pro-science post and will be sharing it. Thank you for encouraging scouts to vaccinate – it not only protects them from diseases but their fellow scouts and members of the community.

  13. What a fantastic way to show scouts how they are part of a community and that their actions directly affect the people around them! Science and medical evidence merit badge for the Marin Council troop! It’s great to see these positive messages coming from an area that is known for a high vaccine opt-out rate. Keep it up!

  14. I can see this was meant to be amusing, but as a parent of a vaccine-affected child, and a scout leader of many children with mixed medical backgrounds, and a woman who lost an unborn child due to taking a routine but necessary medication for a serious short-term illness, plus being a cancer patient and in the immune-compromised position … medical situations are never that cut-and-dried. Please don’t fuel the fire by using the Scout Law, which we hold dear, to make fun of those of us who really need the freedom of choice to make a medical decision which leaves us with no choice, if we are to protect ourselves and our children. Few parents make this choice lightly … we DO care about others. We have to protect our children too, though.

  15. Twist the scout law to support whatever political agenda you have…wrong on so many levels. Just wrong. This post is an outrage!

    • I’d agree that the tone of the article was in poor taste. But other than that, this is not in support of a political agenda. Its a scientific and health agenda.

  16. Kristen’s got a point, but I fear she missed it. Scouts should ALWAYS give thought to actions, especially as they relate to health care. Marin County isn’t calling for mandatory vaccinations without physician advice, but is instead calling on Scouts to consider their role in community and family.

    My older brother contracted polio as a child, and he bore the effects his entire life to his premature death. My parents made sure we got vaccines as they became available. Our family physician in Burley, Idaho, gave my mother the full run-down of side effects on some vax or other (diphtheria? I was a kid . . .). He said he wanted her to be informed. She asked if the vaccine could kill me, and he said that was one possible side effect. “And if he doesn’t get the vaccine, but gets the disease?” “He’ll wish he was dead if it doesn’t kill him.”

    “So the side effects, including death, aren’t as bad as the disease?”

    I read the brochures, still. I look at the CDC figures on tests, and reactions. We watched our kids after every inoculation, and we always asked what the contraindications would be for the jabs.

    As I read the Marin Council’s piece, it’s telling us to stay informed, and then act for our own good, and for the good of everyone else.

    Wouldn’t it be outrageous to do otherwise?

    I’d never thought of clean water, clean food, pure drugs, and good health, as all that political. If it is, it’s good politics.

    • I agree that Scouts should give thought to everything. This piece however, in its attempt at humor, seems to say there’s only one answer to the question. As for the politics people are referring to, because of the medical fears brought up by the recent measles incident, there are a lot of folks calling for mandatory vaccine laws … thus taking thoughtfulness and doctor-patient decisions into the realm of politics. Sad, but there it is. And though I do see the attempted humor in the piece, it’s like any humor that singles out a group of people … hurtful.

    • Odd that you should mention polio because it was noted in research documents that paralytic polio occurred at the injection site of some vaccinated children in the UK. I was an infant who had an “adverse reaction” to my second DPT shot and got vaccine encephalopathy with paralytic polio and almost died, was diagnosed with autism and have gut, weakness, toxics and neurological issues to this day. The reality of the situation is that 44,000 children got paralytic polio in 1949, (not just that year) 2400+ children died in that epidemic and those statistics are listed as polio cases; not as vaccine injuries as some, if not many of them, are. The same adverse reactions continued with DPT injuries (not necessarily the polio). And believing that vaccines are safe and being rewarded for administering them, many doctors ignore signs of sensitization in vulnerable children and infants, adults also. The industry resists adopting more recent scientific discoveries about the immune system, toxics, developmental timing, and spends a great deal of $$$$$ funding and influencing medical education, advertising, government policy and obfuscating data through research that they fund. Given their track record with other medications that they have pulled from the market after killing thousands + people, I do not understand how people have so much faith in their word. They have no liability issues, the adverse reactions and ingredients are listed with their products and yet people still believe they are safe and necessary. Doctors who do not believe or read the product inserts tend to revaccinate and not report adverse reactions so the numbers of reactions are very low compared with the reality of the situation. There is a threshold of what our bodies can bear and some of us are genetically vulnerable and become immune compromised and epigenetically vulnerable after vaccination and other toxics exposures. Informed consent, compensation, testing titers and genetic vulnerability are not being done to protect people from the great harm that vaccines can do….slowly and quickly.

      • Actually, I worked on the vaccine injury program, though it finally passed Congress after I left staff. One of the key goals of the system is to provide quick and complete compensation to anyone injured by a vaccine, in order to avoid long legal delays in development of vaccines against new diseases or new strains of old diseases.

        Injuries aren’t compensated by the pharmaceutical companies directly, part of the method of keeping bias out of the system.

        There are a couple of components which I wish more people were aware of. One is the monthly reports of compensation for vaccine injuries. I don’t read them every month anymore, but I do read them, and I note that in reality there are few claims, far fewer than pharmaceutical companies claim, and far fewer than most opponents of vaccines claim. Consequently, the 75-cent excise tax on each vaccination has created an enormous trust fund able to compensate any injuries from vaccines, ably. See reports here:

        http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/tfmp/vaccomp/vaccomp.htm

        A second is the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, VAERS. Among other notable features, this system takes reports from all injured parties — it’s not moderated by drug companies or physicians. So ALL adverse effects should be reported, even those that are ultimately determined NOT to be related to a vaccine.

        Have you checked out the site and its reports? http://vaers.hhs.gov/index

        Congress intended that no injured person should be left out, should have to contend with a battery of lawyers denying claims, and that reports not be filtered by physicians or drug companies with reasons for bias.

        Why do I have so much faith in vaccines? Because I’ve seen the death and destruction that occurred without the vaccines, and because I’ve seen the relatively few adverse reactions, and because I know that the payouts to injured parties is considerably below what drug companies had feared.

        There is a threshold to what our bodies can bear. Measules, mumps, rubella, polio, typhoid, cholera, diphtheria, strep and several other disease go way beyond those thresholds, much more often, and with much greater severity, than any vaccine.

    • I forgot to mention that I got paralytic polio with encephalitis in the USA. There were also cases in Victoria (Australia or Canada)? according to another person who had it as a vaccine reaction. The parameters of polio (what is called polio or GBS and other related reactions and diseases) has changed since that time, but the statistics remain. I am sorry your brother suffered so. It makes for a hard life sometimes whatever the source. I showed signs of being vulnerable to vaccine damage after my first shot…inconsolable screaming 20 hours a day, high fevers, loss of appetite, etc. The second shot made it worse and I was admitted with convulsions and the rest along with paralytic polio and then came down with paratyphoid dysentary right after I was discharged from the hospital.

  17. I get the attempt at satire, but this disheartens me. To see the Scout Law distorted and used to take up one side of a debate (a debate centered around personal medical choice) is very disappointing. This is not a publishing that would seek to bring unity, but rather make those who choose one medical route appear to be superior to those who choose alternatives.
    I am not necessarily anti-vax. I am pro-parental rights, pro-education, pro-vaccine choice. Healthcare needs to be individualized to the unique make-up of the patient. Most all aspects of healthcare are individualized based on the patient’s history, genetic make-up, weight, pre-existing conditions, etc. The current vaccine program is not individualized, it is not tailored to the patient. It is a top-down, one-size-fits-all program that the Supreme Courts declares “unavoidably unsafe.” Does that mean no one should get vaccinated? No, but it does mean that parents have the right to educate themselves via ALL available data, and decide, along with their healthcare provider, which vaccinations they will receive and which they choose to avoid.
    Currently, there are several bills at the state level seeking to remove the conscientious and religious exemptions from citizens, leaving only the medical exemption which is attainable through only a very narrow set of circumstances (HIV, organ transplant, spleen/kidney failure).
    Without the conscientious or religious exemptions, parents have no right to forego a vaccination. For example, I survived chicken pox virtually unscathed (I have a small scar on my nose), and say I decide that the risk of one of my 4 children contracting chicken pox is less than the potential adverse side effects printed on the vaccine insert… under the current bill, I would have NO RIGHT to decline that vaccination.
    An exemption form does not distinguish as to whether a family is avoiding all vaccines or just one or two that, after careful research, they decide is not worth it.
    The recommended vaccine schedule has doubled since the year 2000 to include 69 doses of vaccines for 16 different viral/bacterial infections. The CDC is proud to say that there are close to 300 NEW VACCINES in the testing process. 300!! With the removal of the exemptions now, parents will have no choice to refuse some of these vaccines coming down the pipes.
    Healthcare needs to remain in the hands of a doctor/patient relationship with informed consent… NOT a state or federally forced mandate.

  18. I agree in principle. However, if Scouts are following the Scout Oath and the Scout Law, it should not be necessary for Scouts to receive the HPV vaccine.

    The”Morally Straight” clause in the Scout Oath means that Scouts should abstain from sex until they are married!

    • Abstinence is a wonderful solution. Its implementation in out culture … not so great.

      Even if someone is your one-and-only, there is no assurance that you will be theirs.

      Forgoing HPV based on your counter-cultural values is a very long bet.

  19. There is certainly room for debate about the cause of autism, when you dig into the studies you see far less detail than is represented by the medical community as ‘scientific fact”. The CDC reports 0 (zero) deaths from measles in the united states for the past 30 years, but thousands of deaths due to pneumonia or flu, yet pneumonia and flu vaccines are encouraged but not required. We have an enormous increase in developmental disorders in children, If you cannot answer with specifics as to why, then why do you think its wise to require others to do as you say for vaccinations? I like freedom, it’s a fantastic concept but hard to hang on to unless you have good facts. I have read some articles that indicate over use of ultrasound technology could cause temperature variations in developing embryos, but I am not seeing the medical industry studying that extensively either. Both vaccines and ultrasound are common to more industrialized nations, as are greatly increased autism spectrum disorders. I would kind of like to see the device industry sponsor studies about immunizations and pharmacies sponsor studies about devices and see what the data looks like if the money is going in different pockets. Knowledge is power, and until you can prove that a combination of genetics and age and multiple immunizations do not cause disorders then you shouldn’t override a parents judgement. Herd immunity is a great concept, especially in cattle, but we are talking about people, and people should have choices.

      • So you have an idea do you Thomas?

        Tell me something champ, how does the vaccine for pertussis provide herd immunity?

        What is challenge, rechallenge and why should it be ignored for vaccines and subsequent injuries?

        What is the purpose of the “double” in randomised double blind placebo controlled trial?

        What are the placebos that are used when pharma companies test their vaccines for safety? Are they inert? If not, how can you possibly know that they are sufficiently safe?

        Does correlation prove causation? If not, how do you know that vaccines work? Indeed, how do you know that injuries/disability occurring after a disease is causally related?

        How do vaccines actually work? How do you stimulate T-cell, B-cell whatever to have a memory? They are just single cells. How do they remember something as complex as how to fight off a self-replicating pathogen?

        The simple fact is that there isn’t a shred of non-circular evidence that vaccines actually prevent disease. And since the widespread use of childhood vaccines (c1950) rates of childhood disability have – according to US census data – risen ten times. Even if you want to claim that vaccines are not responsible for this rise (because correlation doesn’t prove causation unless it supports your prejudices) on what basis do you claim that their widespread use has been a wonderful thing for our children’s health?

        And here is something you can do for us all given that this issue clearly means a lot to you. Take the entire infant immunisation

        • Yeah, you win the argument with overwhelming ranting, and by putting in doubt the actual working of our immune system.

      • Actually, if you read the quotes below, I am reading the very journals used by pro vacciners to say they are completely safe, yet if they had read the same summary quotes we have below, you will see that vaccination is not risk free, and combination vaccines are tested on very small study groups compared to the total population and variations of 1-2 percent may not show up in the trials. 1-2% in a population of 4 million new borns is 40,000 children effected by a vaccine. Educate yourself instead of regurgatating that vaccines are completely safe, these studies clearly show that their is risk involved even if it is 1% you are talking about a lot of kids.

  20. If nothing else, many of the comments regarding this topic show why we need better STEM education in the US! Basing your health choices on the opinions of celebrities without scientific or medical backgrounds does not seem like the best way to ensure a long and healthy life!

  21. The closing comments on the vaccine study from 2011 referred to on the CDC page on the subject and referred to so often by people demanding others be vaccinated whether they want it or not. In the summary I don’t see any absolutes as to the safety.

    “the evidence was inadequate to accept or reject a causal relationship”

    “The committee finds that evidence convincingly supports a causal relationship between some vaccines and some adverse events—such as MMR, varicella zoster, influenza, hepatitis B, meningococcal, and tetanus-containing vaccines linked to anaphylaxis. Additionally, evidence favors rejection of five vaccine-adverse event relationships, including MMR vaccine and autism and inactivated influenza vaccine and asthma episodes. However, for the majority of cases (135 vaccine-adverse event pairs), the evidence was inadequate to accept or reject a causal relationship. Overall, the committee concludes that few health problems are caused by or clearly associated with vaccines.”

    When you dig a little further you find Oxford studies on combination vaccines are based on trials of between 400 and 5000 test subjects,

    http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/33/Supplement_4/S319.full

    they indicate that it would be hard to detect rare negative outcomes in a much larger group of 4 million annually and that a variation of 1 percent would effect 40,000 children

    “Nevertheless, the likelihood of a new safety issue arising with use of a combination vaccine is not zero. Certainly, effects of combining vaccine components on the immunogenicity of these components have been observed [4, 5]. Exacerbation of the frequency or severity of known reactions, particularly if the reaction is known to be associated with more than one of the components, is not implausible. It is even possible that a new reaction might be observed with a combination vaccine. For example, a reaction might be associated with one or more of the components, but so rarely that it had not been observed previously; if the frequency of the reaction increased when the combination was administered, the reaction might begin to be observed. Because combination vaccines are expected to be widely used, as they simplify and increase the tolerability of the immunization process, and because their benefits can be achieved in an alternative way (by giving the components separately), it is particularly important to identify excess risks associated with combining the components into a single injection. Practitioners and parents would not likely be willing to accept an increased risk of a serious reaction just to avoid an extra injection.”

  22. I’m not living for the betterment of a “Society”, that disregaurds a persons right to choose a “medical” procedure. Vaccine reactions are not rare. Tell that to my son and many other babies, children and adults in my town that have permanent mental and physical dissabilities from being vaxxed. Do REAL research before posting things like this. Reasearch not funded by vaccine manufacturers. They are the ones who Profit off of vaccines, there is proof that vaccines cause autism. There have been legit documentarys made on this specific issue. This needs to be removed from the internet, it is an insult to ANYONE who has been vaccine injured and thier families.

    • No, its an insult to who gets a disease because of lack of vaccination in others. Vaccines do not cause autism. Get off that bandwagon and spreading misinformation.

      • Show me the proof that it does not, please, with a non-profit study. Can you? I will read any studie not funded by the vaccine maufacturers or big “money maker” companies. I am Anti vaxx, but I will not judge someone who beleives in them. Myself and my children do not carrie diseases. We are never sick, we are healthy and beleive in food and herbcare. Did you know that After reciveing certain vaccines you or your child is actually SHEDDING the live virus? Did you know that it says on the CDC website, that if you or a child have recieved a vaccine that causes shedding, that you should keep that child out of the general public until the shedding stops? So if you really want to throw out the “facts”, the vaccinated spread certain diseases.

        • Show me proof that it is not caused by drinking formula, using diapers, the cloth on the car seat you use, the vapors of the gasoline in your car, or any number if other possible things. If I show you studies you will throw them out as does any other antivaxxer, because evidence cannot trump ingrained beliefs. Your comments about vaccines show how little you really know and that you have been scaremongered. Tell me what part of the CDC site you are reading about shedding and I will put some real interpretation behind it.

        • You are partially correct: Some vaccines do use live, but weakened, viruses that stimulate the immune system to manufacture antibodies against those viruses. You’re mostly wrong, however, because those weakened viruses cannot infect others. I would challenge you to provide “proof” that vaccines cause autism. You clearly believe very strongly in that, so there must be a peer-reviewed article published somewhere that provides that proof. In the spirit of fair play, here’s a link to the Science-based medicine website that debunks the anti-vaxxer arguments against vaccination: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/reference/vaccines-and-autism/. Note that the authors are real doctors and the references they cite are from real scientific and medical journals – not the blogs of uninformed celebrities.

        • Actually the live virus vaccinations can be an issue for immune suppressed people. Mostly though they just have to not hold the kids and no physical contact with the adults and are told not to use the same bathrooms even then it’s only a few weeks. Healthy people really aren’t at any significant risk though.

          Although speaking as an immune suppressed person I just make sure not to touch anything with my bare hands in public restrooms. I still attend troop meetings and events, work in an office, go out to eat, etc.

        • You obviously didn’t believe in paying attention in school. Your grammar, syntax and spelling are atrocious.

        • Nice pointless rebuttle on something as small as my grammar, kudos!! Oh Thomas, I’m always willing to read “information”. As long as its not funded by big pharma or the vaccinne makers, I’ll have an open mind. Oh my sweet, sweet Alan, Listen I was fully vaccinated as a child. My son is up to date on his vaccinations, but he WAS DAMAGED and shortly after he got vaxxed he lost almost all cognitive function and stopped walking and making eye contact. All of this happened within the first three days of his last vaccination. I lost my son for almost a year before he started to recover from his detox treatment. It’s all of your guys personal opinion to think that vaccines do not cause damage. Why? Because you have not experienced it yourself? Try to have some understanding because it DOES happen and more often then you seem know. The Shedding information is RIGHT on the package insert of every vaccine that sheds. If you have such knowledge on this subject, then you should know that certain vaccines DO shed the live virus. FYI, there is a specific vaccine that IS linked to autism, wich is the MMR. There have been whistleblowers and scientist and doctors who have banded together and made documentarys on this. Would you folks like some of this info? I’m sure your just as close minded as you seem to think I am, when it comes to accepting information from a “Antivaxxer”. Alan, I do not read blog or listen to stupid celerities. I listen to non-mainstream media, I read journal articles written by doctors. My current pedi is Anti-vaxx and believes in the naturepathic way. She is a professional and went to medical school for 8 years. She sure as hell knows more than most of you people on here do.

        • Angel, Andrew Wakefield, the MD who “proved” the link between MMR and autism, has lost his medical license, his publications have been retracted, and he has been completely and utterly discredited by the scientific and medical communities. He is a complete and utter fraud who was trying to get his own personal MMR vaccine adopted so that he could become rich – that’s why he made the claims that he did. Here’s a link to an article on Wikipedia (not funded by big Pharma or for-profit companies) that documents his life: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield. Please read it. I’ll say it again: vaccines are mostly responsible for the generally good health we all enjoy – especially here in the US. Why do you think the average life expectancy is now around 80 years here? Do you think it’s because of a few people like you who eschew vaccinations and medical care? Maybe, just maybe, it has something to do with all of the advances in medical science that have been made over the past century and a half. Note that you are entitled to believe whatever you want, but when you intentionally spread misinformation, in my opinion, that’s the equivalent of yelling “Fire” in a crowded theater – people are gonna get hurt. Nothing – absolutely nothing – is risk free. One must evaluate the relative risks of their behavior and choose wisely. I tend to choose those things that have solid experimental evidence behind them rather than listen to conspiracy theorists.

        • Angel, you undermine yourself when you insist on a link between autism and vaccines. Your pedi is not an expert when for one like her there are a hundred researchers who disagree with her. At least she’s not a homeopath. Show me proof autism is not due to smoking by the grandparents. Noone is saying that there are no side effects from vaccines, but they are minimal, less dangerous than the Disease itself. What journals do you read? As for shedding, show me your sources.
          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25560438
          http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/cdcwhistleblower.asp
          http://www.who.int/features/qa/84/en/

  23. I respect the right that parents have to decide whether or not to vaccinate their children, but as the parent of a child who can’t receive the MMR vaccine and the flu shot because of allergies when I send my son to various events and activities I pray that my son doesn’t catch any preventable diseases.

    • No, its an insult to who gets a disease because of lack of vaccination in others. Vaccines do not cause autism. Get off that bandwagon and spreading misinformation.

    • You realize though that your child is also then unvaxxed. If you get to opt not to vaccinate, why shouldn’t others? Medical exemptions are not guaranteed and often very restricted.

  24. One’s health vs the health of the greater community. Profits vs the availability of a particular drug or treatment. The elimination of smallpox, diphtheria, polio myelitis, even the cure of syphilis were all subjects of debate once. Thalidomide, anyone?
    Personal history is important, too. When I was tested for TB with the tine test, I discovered I was allergic to the serum carrier, the tine site immediately swelled up like a bee sting. Scoutson was recently involved in a traffic accident. He was taken to the hospital where he was xrayed, MRIed, magnafluxed and tested to a fair thee well. No concussion or broken bones, only scratches and a bruised leg muscle. He, my wife and I , all had to refuse over and over again the prescription of “pain killers”, analgesics . The doctors and nurses would not take our second or third refusal. Scoutson was not in any great pain, yet they insisted we (he) needed the prescription. We replied we and our insurance company did not need the drug or the extra expense.
    Personal choice is important, and the medical establishment does well to listen to the individual, and not come across with the “we’re the experts” attitude.

    • Doctors and scientists studied for years, so yes, they are experts. Prone to human error, but experts nontheless. I am allergic to aspirin, even after warning, i have had it given to me. But my allergy has zero to do with vaccinations; your choice not to vaccinate affects others.

      • Doctors and scientists gave us thalidomide, Des, voixx, bextra and other recalled drugs. Scientific knowledge changes constantly. This week you can eat eggs.

        • Indeed, and thalidomide is still used, and because of its side effects we have the current checks and bounds we have today in the oharma industry. Evidence accumulates, sometimes in favor, sometimes against. With vaccines, its pretty clear cut, many many years of data. Vioxx and the other NSAIDs were voluntarily recalled as a matter of caution, maybe big pharma isnt all that bad.

    • Magnafluxed? You should have taken him to see a doctor instead of an auto mechanic! I hate to break it to you, but the medical establishment ARE the experts. They have spent years in school learning medical science, and they are required by law to attend additional classes every year that they are licensed. In most peoples’ worlds that qualifies them as experts. Your “personal choice” to be dangerously uninformed puts your child and others at risk. If you’re concerned about the reason(s) for a particular medical procedure or diagnosis, then ask your health care provider to explain it to you. There is no shame in asking for an explanation in non-medical terms. I certainly have no problem asking if I don’t understand. I would rather ask a “dumb” question, than put my child at risk.

      • Alan: You are the first to recognize the “magnaflux” mention ;-). Scoutson was tested, ALOT!. Yeah, they are “the experts” but the idea that someone should obey “the expert” without question or reflection might lead one to fall off the edge of the earth if one were to walk too far. So always ask…. I always ask my doc a lot of questions. Make’m earn his pay. Get him to know me.

        What do you call the fellow who was last in his class at medical school? “Doctor”.

  25. Thomas, all you do is paste the same idiot troll comments. I reject the notion that i have endanger my children to protect anyone.

    Anyone ever read the warning labels to vacines- here is Merck’s MMR.

    http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/m/mmr_ii/mmr_ii_pi.pdf

    ADVERSE REACTIONS
    The following adverse reactions are listed in decreasing order of severity, without regard to causality, within each body system category and have been reported during clinical trials, with use of the marketed vaccine, or with use of monovalent or bivalent vaccine containing measles, mumps, or rubella:
    Body as a Whole
    Panniculitis; atypical measles; fever; syncope; headache; dizziness; malaise; irritability.
    Cardiovascular System Vasculitis.
    Digestive System
    Pancreatitis; diarrhea; vomiting; parotitis; nausea.
    Endocrine System
    Diabetes mellitus.
    Hemic and Lymphatic System
    Thrombocytopenia (see WARNINGS, Thrombocytopenia); purpura; regional lymphadenopathy;
    leukocytosis.
    Immune System
    Anaphylaxis and anaphylactoid reactions have been reported as well as related phenomena such as
    angioneurotic edema (including peripheral or facial edema) and bronchial spasm in individuals with or
    without an allergic history.
    Musculoskeletal System
    Arthritis; arthralgia; myalgia.
    Arthralgia and/or arthritis (usually transient and rarely chronic), and polyneuritis are features of
    infection with wild-type rubella and vary in frequency and severity with age and sex, being greatest in
    adult females and least in prepubertal children. This type of involvement as well as myalgia and
    paresthesia, have also been reported following administration of MERUVAX II.
    Chronic arthritis has been associated with wild-type rubella infection and has been related to
    persistent virus and/or viral antigen isolated from body tissues. Only rarely have vaccine recipients
    developed chronic joint symptoms.
    Following vaccination in children, reactions in joints are uncommon and generally of brief duration. In
    women, incidence rates for arthritis and arthralgia are generally higher than those seen in children
    (children: 0-3%; women: 12-26%),{17,56,57} and the reactions tend to be more marked and of longer
    duration. Symptoms may persist for a matter of months or on rare occasions for years. In adolescent
    girls, the reactions appear to be intermediate in incidence between those seen in children and in adult
    women. Even in women older than 35 years, these reactions are generally well tolerated and rarely
    interfere with normal activities.
    Nervous System
    Encephalitis; encephalopathy; measles inclusion body encephalitis (MIBE) (see
    CONTRAINDICATIONS); subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE); Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS);
    acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM); transverse myelitis; febrile convulsions; afebrile
    convulsions or seizures; ataxia; polyneuritis; polyneuropathy; ocular palsies; paresthesia.
    Experience from more than 80 million doses of all live measles vaccines given in the U.S. through
    1975 indicates that significant central nervous system reactions such as encephalitis and
    encephalopathy, occurring within 30 days after vaccination, have been temporally associated with
    measles vaccine very rarely.{58} In no case has it been shown that reactions were actually caused by
    vaccine. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has pointed out that “a certain number of cases
    of encephalitis may be expected to occur in a large childhood population in a defined period of time even
    when no vaccines are administered”. However, the data suggest the possibility that some of these cases
    may have been caused by measles vaccines. The risk of such serious neurological disorders following
    live measles virus vaccine administration remains far less than that for encephalitis and encephalopathy
    with wild-type measles.

    • Yes, I read ALL the patient information on adverse reactions, down to the last paragraph:

      In no case has it been shown that reactions were actually caused by vaccine. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has pointed out that “a certain number of cases of encephalitis may be expected to occur in a large childhood population in a defined period of time even when no vaccines are administered”. However, the data suggest the possibility that some of these cases may have been caused by measles vaccines. The risk of such serious neurological disorders following live measles virus vaccine administration remains far less than that for encephalitis and encephalopathy
      with wild-type measles.

      In contrast to my school classes, in which we had kids with various problems, particularly deafness, from measles and other infectious diseases, our kids never lost a classmate that way.

      Do you know the cost of the average hospitalization for the average measles-with-complicaitons cases?

    • John, I am well aware of the content on the CDC site, far more than the average joe You restrict yourself to getting scared of all the “potential” side effects that are obliged to be shown on any medication. Or maybe scared of the chemical names on vaccines. But you made no interpretation from then on. Read on further about the actual probabilities, the risks. You might as well start measuring other risks in your life, maybe get concerened about going camping and hiking, that’s a risky thing too. OK, I am an idiot troll because I side with the medical consensus, science and evidence. I am not one that calls others idiots, either.

  26. Folks take a chill pill. For crying out loud can’t anyone see that this is tongue in cheek as Bryan stated. Let’s not be so sensitive that you break out in a rash. Wow, chill out people.

    • As a person with a doctor diagnosed court affirmed vaccine injury I don’t find this a humorous subject. And the flu shot did not help me save money. My vaccine injury medical bills are now over $500,000.

  27. How dare you! This does a HUGE disservice to all of the boys injured by vaccine reactions, my son included. Do you think it is funny that they suffer life long disabilities as a result of us, their parents, “following the rules” and getting them vaccinated? Do you think they like things being so much harder for them because of the brain damage they suffer? Do you think they LIKE being set apart and no longer being a candidate for vaccinations because of their reaction history? You need to take a look at both sides and realize that MANY families no longer vaccinate because they cannot and we don’t find these BS “comply” rants funny, at all. And your comment about saving money? Please. My children have not been seen for an acute, emergent issue in over 5 years. 5 YEARS! No antibiotics, no steroid cream for ezcema, no inhalers for asthma. This comes because of our diligent work to rebuild their health post vaccine reactions. You have no clue what you have waded into here but when you start making satire out of a very serious subject, don’t be surprised when parents respond. Vaccines made my son sick, not healthy. This borders on discriminatory for a subset of children with underlying mitochondrial dysfunction which predisposes them to vaccine injury. Children with vaccine injury deserve a voice in this world and in scouting and you should think about them before you spew out nonsense about vaccine “safety” and compliance.

    • Big deal – your kids haven’t had an emergency in 5 years. What does that prove? I personally haven’t had an emergency in over 30 years, and I regularly get medical care including vaccinations! I am in complete agreement with you that it’s sad that some people react badly to medications and vaccinations. Unfortunately, and this is going to sound harsh, it’s the luck of the draw. Some people are allergic to milk, bee stings, peanuts, shellfish, strawberries, cats, pollens of various types. Are you going to rant against all of those things too? People also drown in water, get hit by cars, get struck by lightning, fall down stairs, and get injured in countless other ways. I don’t hear you spreading misinformation about all of those. Again, I am sorry that your family has been personally impacted by a reaction to a vaccination. Take a deep calming breath and take a look around you: How many of your friends, neighbors, and other family members have had the same thing happen to them? I’m going to go out on a limb here, and say that you don’t know another person who reacted the same way as your son. In my nearly 60 years on this planet I do not personally know a single person who has had a reaction to a vaccine. Even if you do know someone else, how many were affected? One other out of how many hundreds of people do you know? The relative risk of adverse reactions is extremely low.

      • Actually, I know dozens. My husband’s sister’s actual cash if death was vaccines, and they even won vaccine court. I nearly die when I was two due to vaccinations. My son is now immunocompromised for life by immunizations. If anyone thinks that I will risk any more of my children after all of this, they are sorely mistaken. Never again.

        Read my previous reply… reactions are far from “rare”. Even the World Health Organization says that the MMR causes “serious” adverse reactions as often a 1 in 2000… and some reactions as often as 1 in 3. Compound that with the dozen other vaccines we get, and the risks for each of those… your actual risk is nowhere near “rare”.

        Not to mention, hoe old are you? I’m “going out on a limb” and guessing that you are older than 15. As a child born before 1999, you only received about a dozen strains total. Children these days get more like 68 different strains, shots, and boosters before the age of 6. You simply cannot compare the risk you took as a kid to the risk kids take today.

        But regardless, nobody is trying to make you eat peanuts, own a cat, play with bees, swim in lakes, or even drive in cars. You have the full right to deny doing any if those things. And we deserve the right to refuse any and all medical interventions, including vaccinations.

  28. Uhhhhh, philosophical reasons? That just about covers any reason a parent can make up. Hey, it’s a private org. We can require our youth and adults to be vaccinated. This seems more important to me than the issue on whether an adult is homosexual or not. I can’t catch being homosexual, but I can certainly catch Hep C or measles.

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