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Ask the Expert: Can Scouts earn service hours outside of the troop setting?

Scout service projects

expertlogo1Are all service hours created equal?

If a Scout, say, builds a house with his church youth group or delivers meals with his school’s student council, can those hours count toward Boy Scout rank advancement?

That’s what a Scouter named Andrea wondered this week:


Our troop only allows service hours to accrue if it is a troop-sponsored service event. I think that this is against Scouting principles but understand the difficulty in calculating hours if the boys are collecting hours through school, church, etc. What is the BSA policy for this? Can the boys earn service hours outside the troop and how do we get those to “count” if they are allowed to be accrued by the Scout?



Now, nobody will question the value of service to others — even those not conducted with a Scout unit. But what Andrea’s wondering is whether her Scoutmaster is correct in restricting which hours may be applied to rank advancement within Scouting.

The short answer: The Scoutmaster is correct. If he or she wants the service projects to be part of troop activities, that’s fine.

Again we turn to the BSA’s Advancement Team for the full explanation.

Service requirements in Boy Scouts

First, a reminder about where and when Boy Scouts must accumulate service hours. Here’s the official language:

  • Second Class Requirement #5: Participate in an approved (minimum of one hour) service project(s).
  • Star Scout Requirement #4: While a First Class Scout, take part in service projects totaling at least six hours of work. These projects must be approved by your Scoutmaster.
  • Life Scout Requirement #4: While a Star Scout, take part in service projects totaling at least six hours of work. These projects must be approved by your Scoutmaster.

Service hours explained

The Advancement Team says:

As you can see, all service projects must be approved by the unit leader (Scoutmaster in this case).

However, service hours are not restricted to just unit-sponsored events or projects. On page 84 of the Boy Scout Handbook, it states in part: “A service project is a special Good Turn that puts Scout spirit into action. Projects can take many forms. You might take part in a community cleanup; repair a place of worship, a museum, or the home of an elderly person; improve a wildlife habitat; volunteer at a hospital or with a public safety group; organize a recycling effort; or conduct a clothing pickup or food drive.”

Scouts may also assist on Eagle Scout projects being conducted by the Eagle Scout candidate.

Again, approval must be obtained from the unit leader; this is how service hours are counted and accounted for.

Basically, a Scout could accumulate service hours outside of Scouting, but only if his Scoutmaster approves.

This is a case of letting each Scoutmaster set his or her own policy.

Thanks for the question, Andrea!

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Related post

Ask the Expert: Do the hours worked by family members count on an Eagle service project?

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76 Comments on Ask the Expert: Can Scouts earn service hours outside of the troop setting?

  1. Our troop created a form for the boys to fill out to get credit for service hours outside of troop events. It has them list the activity, describe what they did and has the person running the event sign off that they participated. Finally the Scoutmaster has to sign the form before it’s given credit. It’s worked well for us.

    • Deaf Scouter // May 17, 2013 at 9:47 am // Reply

      Ahhh Dave.. I see you beat me to the ‘ create a form’ answer.

      We also do the form. The high school created one so we simply use theirs into our Scouting program. Many high schools are requesting service hours as part of graduation requirements in conjunction with the college application process. To insure proper signature we send a courtesy email of who was in charge of the Scout event to the High School Admin in charge of this form by way of invitation to the event. (Some of our Scouting events are town wide like our Scouting for Food concept because of the rural layout of the community.)

      A version of the form can be found here in the related files section:

    • At the last U of Scouting I took a course on Service Projects. The last part of the service project process is Reflection. This form sounds like a good way for the Scout to reflect on what he did, why he did it, what the benefits might be, etc.

  2. Derek Simmons // May 17, 2013 at 9:21 am // Reply

    Why create a form? There’s a place in the handbook to record date, project, hours and have a responsible person sign to verify. Page 447.

    • 2 reasons – our boys forget to bring their manual most of the time and we keep a copy for future reference.

      • Deaf Scouter // May 17, 2013 at 9:48 am // Reply

        Or their high school needs it for their graduation requirement as is our case.

      • Ummm….The Boy Scout Handbook?

        If you don’t insist that the boys have it how can they get anything signed off? Or much more importantly LEARN ANY SCOUT SKILL!

    • Bob Basement // May 20, 2013 at 9:23 am // Reply

      Ahhhh forms…..

      Did the PLC like the form????

      Oh that’s right they probably didn’t vote on it..

    • Todd Skiles // May 14, 2014 at 6:02 am // Reply

      The form works for me because (a) it could preapprove the hours (like we do for blue cards) so there aren’t questions. And (b) give more detail as to the nature of the service. The handbook is for recording the hours after the fact.

  3. Our Troop has a form for the Scout to complete (much like Dave’s…previous post) and turn into the Advancement Chair after he has the Scoutmaster sign it.
    During our Fall COR we recognize the Scout with the most service hours for the past year. However, we do not count service hours if the Scout will get recognition from another organzation for the same service. Example is Lion’s Heart – A National Teen Volunteer Organization.

  4. Todd Skiles // May 17, 2013 at 9:50 am // Reply

    I like the form. It gives some accountability. Sure, a Scout is Trustworthy. But as Mr. Reagan said: Trust. But verify.

    • If you want a Scout to be trustworthy, you need to treat him as such. A Scout knows if you actually trust him by your actions, not by you mindlessly repeating hollow platitudes. Conversely, he knows you don’t really consider him trustworthy if you require multiple verifications of something he could just as easily state he has done. Trust, like respect, is a two-way street.

      • Todd Skiles // May 14, 2014 at 6:09 am // Reply

        But we also have oversight and mentoring. I trust my scouts to go camping, sailing and to conduct themselves appropriately. And yet we have adult supervision. I still stop when they are unsafe, and help them reflect on opportunities to improve. Trust is not a blank check. Youth-Led has a sweet spot halfway between Adult Run, and Lord of the Flies.

        • Trust is a blank check, but the check can only draw on one account. No where are we required to trust Scouts to camp or sail by themselves. That’s why we go – because WE are entrusted with the responsibility there, not them. The “sweet spot” is in understanding when and where we should trust a Scout and, as far as advancement is concerned, that is when a Scout offers me his word as his bond. The first it becomes apparent he broke his bond, we can have an additional lesson on how hard it is to earn it back. Not the easy way to teach that lesson and it requires the SM to have his head in the game, and….it works.

          “Trust but verify” was actually an old Russian proverb that Reagan adopted during nuke treaty discussions. It was catchy domestically, because it meant we really didn’t trust the Russians at all and would verify everything, regardless of what they said. It was all about maintaining control in an adversarial relationship. No one ever uses this phrase when they are talking about people they actually trust. Even Gorbachev got tired of hearing it.

          Imagine endlessly verifying to your spouse or children that you are a good person. Imagine having to bring lots of corroborating evidence to a hearing on your character. Sadly, this is exactly what advancement has become in some units.

  5. We allow the hours if they didn’t “count” somewhere else. No double dipping.

    • I just don’t get the double dipping. If the scouts needs 20 hours of community service for National Honor Society and my son is already giving 15 hours to scouts then why can’t he use his hours for both. I’m not sure about what type of time your son has but my scout is busy. Scouts, football, rugby, baseball, wrestling, band, National Honor Society, Church, High Honor Roll and taking all advanced classes in addition to his chores. He manages his time well and even has a little down time. I just think it’s crazy to do 20 hours for National Honor Society + X hours for scouts + X hours for High School Graduation.

      • Maybe your son needs to learn to prioritize. You can’t do everything.

        • Barney Hollis // May 13, 2014 at 5:01 pm //

          I keep hearing the BSA talk about trying to keep boys involved. Jennifer I commend your son for being so involved in many different things. If he can manage to keep all that straight and perform, then my hat is off to him. MN wants the boy to prioritize. Well, that will force him to make a choice. Will that choice be, Scouts, football, rugby, baseball, wrestling, band, National Honor Society, Church High Honor Roll or the Advanced classes. Scouts is the one that appears to be denying his “double dipping” and most likely not the others. May I ask which will be the first to fall by the wayside. I figure it might be the one that appears to put itself above the rest.

        • grace610 // May 13, 2014 at 9:28 pm //

          It’s been a year and baseball was the first to go as he is finishing his freshman year of high school. He still has superior time management skills (in addition to an on call taxi mom) but realized that in order to be at the top of his game something had to go. He is now a Life Scout and in the very early stages of his Eagle project. Currently he does not have to document any service hours yet he continues to serve others when he has the time. A good turn daily is something he just does and not because he is a scout but because it is his nature. Isn’t that what we ultimately want for these young men?

      • Tom Petrik // May 13, 2014 at 8:21 pm // Reply

        If double dipping occurs, my unit has found it beneficial to have the outside agency being the second count. Boy Scout service, then add that to your nhs or school or church, but we get to count it first and record it for JTE.

    • It is not double dipping, it is getting multiple recognition. The Scout isn’t getting paid. He is getting recognized for doing Good Turn(s). Many schools recognize an Eagle Project as a Scout’s Graduation Project. Using your logic, the Scout wouldn’t be able to get credit for his Eagle Project if the school recognized it also. Don’t be concerned about Scouts getting too much recognition, that is a good thing, not a bad thing. The critical thing is getting the Scoutmaster’s approval. Some Scoutmasters require advance approval, some don’t. It’s the Scoutmaster’s call.

      • Bob Basement // May 22, 2013 at 10:35 am // Reply

        Too much recognition doesn’t create problems???

        really obviously you have never worked with someone from the millennial generation

    • JOhn Troop 95 – does your troop then count that Scout’s service in both Service and Advancement portions of the JTE measurements? If so, that is also “double dipping”.

  6. I had a super religious scout. Because he was so super religious and dedicated he often didn’t get to take part in our troop activities. Church came first. That’s his right and his choice, and I would never diss him for that. And his parents were dedicated to the troop (no camping, but held positions and always there) so when they told me he did something with the church, I did not doubt it. He even took those youth ministry trips – that’s why he never went to camp – always conflicted with that. I fully expect him to become a minister. He’s 15 now.

    Now some of my other boys I might have questioned….but I didn’t have to because they didn’t do anything outside the troop.

  7. After the boy gets permissions from our Scoutmaster we often ask for a letter to be provided attesting to the number of hours the scout worked. While our scouts are trustworthy this also serves as a verification of the number of hours.

  8. Rick Chappell // May 17, 2013 at 12:38 pm // Reply

    I think we often create some unnecessary obstacles for the young men we serve. The point of the service requirements is for young men to learn the value of service. Our mission is to instill in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. The point of requirements is to get young men to do things that they can see the benefit and value. It’s like the directions to an event. They are all important, but the real goal is to get us there. To me, a worthwhile service is a worthwhile service. I feel like restricting service to unit projects is changing the service from a value into a task to accomplish something – in my mind it actually does the opposite of what the mission of Scouting is. Likewise, I feel like restricting “double dipping” is similar. If the young man is doing good service anywhere, we should recognize it.

    • Right On Rick!

    • Bob Basement // May 20, 2013 at 9:21 am // Reply

      So you do a great job at work…..

      Does your boss give you double the pay????

      • Rick Chappell // May 20, 2013 at 8:07 pm // Reply

        Bob, your work analogy doesn’t even come close to applying or even making sense here. If you really want to tie this to a paid work analogy – you would have two organizations that want the same task completed, and both contract with the same person to do the same work, yes, both should pay because they contracted for the work and the work was done. They obviously wouldn’t contract for work they didn’t need nor want. But the analogy breaks down. We’re not talking about work for pay. We’re talking about service, and more importantly, about generating a life style of service. If I do a service that multiple people appreciate, should I only accept thanks from one person.
        Your suggestion seems like one that I was talking about – creating necessary obstacles. To me that seems like turning the Eagle Rank into a commodity that is purchased. I guess in a way you can make that suggestion because of the nature of advancements – and I do think all to often we lead the boys into that thought process. But to me, the purpose of this game is to build lives of character, citizenship and service. The requirements are really set there as opportunities to formally build experiences. It’s a pretty subtle difference, yes, but very critical, at least in my mind.

        • Bob Basement // May 21, 2013 at 9:01 am //

          Eagle is a commodity to be purchased.

          So I wonder what the % of eagles earned for Wealthy vs Poor troops or areas is????? Cash does make a huge difference……

          The folks on this blog, treat service as a statistic…….not a way of life.

          I don’t know just seems like we got lost along the way….

          Just sad.

        • Rick Chappell // May 21, 2013 at 8:27 pm //

          Bob, you keep misdirecting the conversation (not to mention some Scout Law issues – courteous, kind, etc). The issue discussed is about the service boys are doing – not that they are avoiding it. The discussion is about the unit ignoring the service a Scout does that is not set up by the unit. You keep suggesting that it’s a question of doing service or not, but it’s about recognizing young men for the service that they do, wherever it is. Your contention that a kid putting 20-30 hours on service projects outside of the troop shouldn’t apply towards Scout advancement because they have so much more time they could be doing projects you choose for them in my mind completely misses the boat of the mission we are trying to accomplish.
          But, hey, your welcome to do that in your unit if you so choose. I still suggest that you are creating requirements that don’t exist.

        • Bob Basement // May 22, 2013 at 10:27 am //

          I am not add requirements….

          I, well the PLC, is adding opportunities to complete the measly 13 hours of community service….

          I am not adding requirements.

        • Rick Chappell // May 22, 2013 at 12:40 pm //

          OK. Bob. You’re right.

  9. Kelly Horton // May 17, 2013 at 2:59 pm // Reply

    I think it would be best to discuss this at a Committee meeting first with the SM’s leading on it. I, speaking for myself would not be against it. Part of scouting is to network with other people and groups. Who is to say that Scout Johnnie does a service project with his youth group at church and then recruits some kids into his troop or venture crew. It would be good PR for the unit. I think that the Committee should be aware of the service project and give their blessing on it.

    We have boys that do their service projects in the troop, but also use it for their senior project in high school. Scouts wants an Eagle project as a demonstration of management of labor where as a service project is doing the work. So I see no conflict. An Eagle project us usually a step above a senior project though.

    With regard to service, there are all sorts of service. My son and I serve in our church once a month greeting and collecting the offering, while in uniform. It is a residual practice from the Royal Ranger Uniform Sunday. In a way, it is the same as Scout Sunday done 12 times a year instead of just in February. At least in my church anybody in a service group can do the same thing. They do have to be in uniform though.

    I do not think it is acceptable for a scout to do service work after the fact and expect to get credit for it if it was not discussed a head of time. This is up to the SM first and the committee second to approve it.

    • Rick Chappell // May 17, 2013 at 9:52 pm // Reply

      “I do not think it is acceptable for a scout to do service work after the fact and expect to get credit for it if it was not discussed a head of time.” For me, I would disagree with this as well. It is up to the SM, f course, but I see nothing wrong with giving a Scout credit for service he has done. The key is determining that it was really a worthwhile service. Remember, our goal is to instill virtues in their lives, not make them jump through hoops.

    • Bob Basement // May 20, 2013 at 9:19 am // Reply

      So my question to you regarding collecting the offering is???

      So you count the entire hour your sitting in church or the actual 5 minutes it takes to do the offering?????

      • Rick Chappell // May 20, 2013 at 8:11 pm // Reply

        Bob, do you go to Church with Kelly? Do you know what the service entails? Maybe there’s more to it. I think it would be appropriate for any Scoutmaster to have this discussion with the Scout. But if the Scoutmaster agrees the service is worthwhile, that isn’t that approval – whether given before or after the fact?

        • Bob Basement // May 20, 2013 at 8:59 pm //

          I collect the offering and usher at our place of worship….My scout son has helped me since he could walk….

          Should all of those hours since becoming a scout should count??? Heck no.

        • Rick Chappell // May 21, 2013 at 8:30 pm //

          I wonder if you truly don’t understand or if you are just trying to troll and play devil’s advocate. No one is suggesting that any service the Scout has ever done should count at all. The discussion is about service they are doing while a Scout and working towards rank advancement.

      • I get the impression Bob would prefer Scouts use a time clock and punch card to get the exact seconds the Scout spent doing actual service. Who was talking about making service a statistic again?

  10. We allow outside hours. With respect to “double dipping” we don’t allow a Scout to use his Star or Life service hours for Citizenship in the Community service hours but I wouldn’t have an issue with National Honor Society service hours counting towards Scouts.

    We’ve had times where the Troop didn’t have any Eagle projects in the pipeline and Scouts needed service hours for advancement and they’ve used service hours at the food bank or church or at a park to satisfy their service hour requirement. Then we’ve also had times where we have multiple Eagle projects and more hours of work than Scouts to do it. It goes in cycles. For Citizenship in the Community Scouts have done work at the food bank to fill out hours from our Scouting for Food drive. They then have to do a little research on the organization that runs the food bank to finish the requirement.

  11. I find zero evidence that “fathers” of Scouting thought service was only for the group context, and they, of course, saw the patrol as the group, not a troop.

    IMO, restricting service to a troop setting is quite wrong-headed, even in a “Troop Method” unit.

    “Do a Good Turn daily”

  12. In my humble opinion… whether in scouting, honor societies, school or church related, the whole point of “service hours” is to get young people to recognize that service to others is important, rewarding, fulfilling, and that it should be an on-going part of life. Placing too many rules and regulations, or placing too much emphasis on the concept of completion of a required amount of service, implies that it is “one and done”; something to be checked off the list and forgotten. Rather, if we use the requirements as a learning tool, as all requirements should be, we teach young people to try something and find a type of service that is rewarding, with the hope that they will continue that as a life skill. Now, they should as a natural part of participating in Troop activities have opportunities for service…

  13. Bob Basement // May 20, 2013 at 9:18 am // Reply

    Isn’t the entire point of community service hours introducing the scout to giving back to the community…..

    Community service should never be treated like what I am seeing here…..

    A simple check mark on the way to Eagle………….

    I feel sad for all of the troops that say they need to count every second or double count service hours…… What in the world does their program look like…

    Our troop has a culture of community service, from service at the churches food pantry, to planting trees for arbor day and earth day…..To our Park and Recs department Junior Ranger program…….

    Our scouts pretty typically get 50 or more hours a year in community service with our troop alone…. So whether or not they count it for national honor society isn’t my worry.

    Seriously folk your over thinking it.

    • Rick Chappell // May 20, 2013 at 8:21 pm // Reply

      Bob, it’s great that you have a program that does that much service. I know many boys, particularly when they get in High School, are active in many pursuits, whether it be Church or school Honor societies where they do a lot of service pretty regularly. Our schools NHS requires a substantial number of hours of service. It seems to me that forcing them to do separate service with the troop is more of a bean counting exercise than worrying about “double counting.” Not to mention the Scout now is having to track what service hours go for what organization – turning them into commodities. Not to mention blocking a young man from advancing because his service was different than what the troop is doing seems a bit petty.

  14. Bob Basement // May 20, 2013 at 9:12 pm // Reply

    I gotta laugh here…..

    So all this bickering and posturing is over what 12 hours of community service.

    Or am I missing something here?????

    Is community service that tough to come by or are we that lazy??????

    Seriously people your scout spends more time than that playing Black ops in an average week.

    • Rick Chappell // May 21, 2013 at 12:20 am // Reply

      Pretty strong words. I have to admit, I can’t remember anyone ever suggesting that building a house or delivering meals lazy…
      The discussion is not about 12 hours of service, but about whether additional rules regarding service are arbitrary or appropriate. While 20+ hours per semester of community service doesn’t really sound like a lot – how much time does a young man spend in the troop? About 2 hours tied up every week, and one weekend a month just on the Scouting activities. If a student plays a sport, that’s another 15-20 hours per week. Another couple of hours per week spent doing their school service hours (averaged out over the semester). Add several hours a week attending Church activities (not to mention services). During the fall in Football season, on Fridays, my kids start school in the morning and don’t get home again until 11pm.
      Could they toss in a couple of more hours to fulfill your requirement that they do only service that you want them to do – sure. But at what impact to them and their family?
      Sure, there are kids spending many hours of their day playing video games. But to suggest that they all are is unreasonable. And in my mind, you are adding requirements that do not exist. I have yet to read a requirement that all service had to be done within the troop.

  15. Bob Basement // May 21, 2013 at 8:00 am // Reply

    Ya they are harsh because this conversation is completely ridiculous.

    6 hours for star
    6 hours for Life.

    So we are talking 6 hours in a 6 month period if the scout is in a race.

    For most scouts we are talking 6 hours in a year…..1/2 hour per month

    Really people…..we are creating form, tracking 15 minute intervals to get 6 hours….

    I am embarrassed for the Organization. Especially one that has a reputation for good turns and giving to others.

    It simply punctuates that sad state of the BSA and the volunteers that run the local programs.

    If the PLC doesn’t add community service as part of the 6 month program I suggest they add some.

    • Bob – I had a response all written out and just decided it wasn’t worth it. No one is going to change your mind. All I’ve got to say is I’m glad my son isn’t in your troop. I quit Boy Scouts as a kid after 3 months because our Scoutmaster was rigid like you. It was his way or nothing. Very sad indeed.

      • Bob Basement // May 21, 2013 at 8:52 am // Reply

        Oh I am not rigid….

        I just think that the adults are being completely stupid about the situation….

        Do you appreciate how little time that is?? Less than a single day.

        A couple of saturday mornings picking up trash or working the food bank or reading to patients in the hospital and your done….

        I bet your son spend more than 6 hours on facebook, twitter, tumblr and video games…I know mine does….

  16. The requirement is not to count service hours but hours spent on service projects.
    Is there a difference?

    Here’s a collection of BSA material relevant to this topic of service projects and citizenship presented at a roundtable last year:


  17. Wow Bob, I am truly disappointed in your attitude. I would expect a scoutmaster to be more reasonable. My son has better time management than most adults I know and gives of his time willingly. Not because he has to but because he wants to. He is busy with life and doesn’t have a facebook, twitter or tumblr account because he thinks it’s nonsense and a complete waste of time. Video games are a luxury on a Saturday afternoon when he’s not camping or at a sports practice. I’m grateful that both his scoutmaster and his National Honor Society advisor do not consider his service hours “double dipping”.

    I can promise his community service is not about a check mark on the way to Eagle. Community service will be life long for him as it has been for my husband and me.

    On a side note, I’m happy to live in a town that has several troops to choose from.

  18. Bob Basement // May 27, 2013 at 8:43 am // Reply

    There are 8 troops in a fairly small area…

    They join our troop because of affordable superior program….the PLC does a very good job… We are very close to capacity 36 youth and will wait list after that….

    Not bad in going from 2 active to 28 in three years.

    I expect to be at capacity with other units folding because of the gay issue.

    Hold the boys to a high standard they will surprise you.

  19. The objective is to establish a lifetime routine for the scout to provide service to the community. Let’s stop getting wrapped around the axle about “numbers”. If the scout is routinely providing “cheerful service” to his community, he is doing it right.

    • Yes, as per the slogan: do a good turn daily

  20. So, I’m a Chapter Adviser in the Order of the Arrow. I’ve fought Scoutmasters, and units about getting unit elections done. It has moved from what does the OA really do, to When can we get an OA election for our unit. I think one of the biggest factors is providing service opportunities as a chapter, to the district. This means a Scoutmaster doesn’t have to plan an event, doesn’t have to worry about the rank service hours and his/her unit. It also fulfills one of our requirements as the OA… something about Cheerful Service…

    Additionally this helps each unit, as they count the hours, it goes to towards the District’s service for JTE, the Lodge Claims the hours of service on their JTE, the Council benefits, as the hours count with them, towards their service grants and what not. It really has worked out for me and my chapter.

  21. I think it’s sad that Scoutmaster would restrict service to projects done by the troop. A scout who goes out on his own to do service is being an ambassador of scouting and to not value that kind of independence and leadership is narrow-minded and disappointing. Now, if a scout wants to do a service project outside the unit he should seek approval in advance, not come after the fact. But a scout serves his community in ways that extend beyond the troop.

  22. As a now former SM, I used their Handbook or a form they provided if I was going to allow double dipping.
    To me, It all comes down to whether they’d gotten the central premise behind service hours. So, some Scouts got to double dip and others didn’t. It was a case by case decision, that was driven by the overall goal of the program applied to each Scout.
    If they figured it out and were observably maturing then they got to double dip too.
    It’s not about 2x or not, it’s about why.

  23. The key is approval. As a scoutmaster, I let the boys know that if they wanted for their ‘out-of-troop’ service to count they had to talk to me an get my approval first. Of course my approval wasn’t just rubber stamped, but if the boy could demonstrate the spirit of scouting in the service then of course I would approve it.

    • So then a “what if”…suppose where you live gets 25 inches of snow in 48 hours. Everything shuts down…no schools, no meetings, stores are sold out of milk and bread (they typically go first). Your scouts, through no force, decide individually to go shovel out the sick, the aged, the schools, and, since the schools janitor got there somehow to start clearing the snow they find out where he lives and go clear his driveway so his family doesn’t have to do it alone and so he doesn’t have to do all the school walkways plus his own home.

      They don’t check with you as scoutmaster first, they come and explain after the fact they did this, can it count as service hours?

      Since you require they get approval from you first, does this count? Or do you tell them to sell their service hours to someone else?

  24. The Scout Slogan is: “Do a Good Turn Daily.” THAT is what we adults are supposed to be teaching the Scouts – putting other people’s needs and wants before our own every day. Without question, the primary intent of this is to inculcate within the Scout a desire to habitually serve others every day of his life, far beyond his career as a Scout. Service hour requirements for every rank except Eagle are undoubtedly centered on giving the Scout a chance to discuss his service with his Scoutmaster or fellow Scouts in a meaningful way.

    So why derail this process with unnecessary paperwork? Worse, why would anyone tell the Scout the service “only counts” if the khaki shirt club is in charge? Isn’t that antithetical to helping the Scout develop initiative and to spot needs in any context? Sure it is. It makes Scouts lazy – “No need to plan to help someone, the PLC/SM will do that for me.” It makes Scouts blind – “No need to spot opportunities to serve, the PLC/SM will do that for me.”

    SM’s go out and do your Scouts a big favor: Tell them that service rendered is service rendered and if they can come back and elucidate their service and the time involved, then it counts. So if a Scout happened to spot a need at the local widow’s home yesterday, and immediately took care of it, who am I as SM to imperiously say “Well, that doesn’t count because you didn’t call me first.” ? Please, I would sooner turn in my uniform. The requirement doesn’t say “pre-approved”. I just says “approve” and the boys know, because we have discussed it, modeled it, encouraged it, (you Wood Badgers know where I am going don’t you Explain, Demonstrate, Guide….) and then yes, I ENABLE it by letting my Scouts find service to others within themselves on a daily basis. All I ask, and all the requirement asks, is that the Scout discuss it with me at some point to get my approval and signature.

    • well said. It is about a lifestyle of service to others, not about checking off a box…

    • A habit of Good turns are certainly desirable for all youth and even better if it’s practiced daily. Certainly we should not discourage good turns in any way and should model them every day as leaders and parents. But are they required for advancement? Is the requirement to make a straightforward tally of good turn hours?

  25. We offer plenty of opportunities for a scout to earn the service hours they need. If, after missing all those opportunities, they still need to be signed off on hours, then they need to come to me (SM) to get permission to count other hours. In addition, if they are missing that many scout activities, then there is a problem with their activity level in the troop (imo).

    • evilleramsfan // April 27, 2014 at 9:04 pm // Reply

      I forgot to add that as far as adding more hours from other non-scouting venues, then all the power to them! Some of my strongest scouts perform service work not only while wearing the uniform, but also at church, school, with their athletic teams, and other service oriented organizations. If they document it all in their book, fine…I don’t mind initialing it.

  26. The SM of my son’s former troop had the scouts get pre approval for service hours for rank advancement. If a scout did service hours without prior approval, the hours didn’t count. As far as “double dipping”, I feel as long as it’s not meant for “good turn daily”, what’s the big deal. My son happened to be doing his Eagle project when the religious director informed his class that each student needed 20 hours of service. My son and his helpers provided over 204 hours for his Eagle project, so he double dipped on 20 hours. I’d rather see him give 204 hours to the community than to only meet the minimum required for a rank advancement. I also disagree with keeping service hours to within the troop. For one of my son’s rank advancements, he needed 6 hours and decided to volunteer at our local senior citizens center. He met a retired Naval officer and a former Boy Scout who taught my son many things while he played games with them or served them lunch. My son loved it so much that he continued to volunteer for over 26 hours after his 6 hours for rank advancement was completed. Another rank advancement, he helped an elderly woman clean her house from top to bottom, cooked her meals, and provided companionship. Again, he thoroughly enjoyed it to the point, he still helps her now, a year and a half later!That is the true purpose of service hours-to allow the scouts to help others with cheerful, friendly service!

  27. Quick Survey: Of the troops that have rigid rules about Scouts not being recognized for service by other organizations, i.e. “double dipping”, how many of those units count that same Scout’s service twice on JTE for unit credit? Once under Service Projects and then again under Advancement……Yep, that’s “double dipping”. In order to comply with the letter and spirit of your own rule, you would have to filter out hours used for advancement purposed from your overall service hour count. Imagine approaching your committee to find an accountant willing to do that chore and then realize, that is exactly what you are demanding of the Scout.

    Question two would be: How many of those units would achieve JTE Gold if they complied with their own rule?

  28. Kenneth Tillman // May 14, 2014 at 5:50 pm // Reply

    So if they go to do their day of Cheerful Service with the OA (ordeal), does that count for their service hours?

    • Ken; did you ever get an answer to yoyr question?

  29. The Scoutmaster’s policy should be publicized in advance and it should not continually change according to some whim or power play. Where are the parents, committee or council when these scoutmasters think they are some deity?

  30. …and if a boy doesn’t like the “blanket exclusion of community service performed”, he should vote with his feet and find a troop that is less lazy and a little more understanding of the purpose of these service elements.

  31. Double dipping: sure, don’t care.
    Outside? Absolutely.
    Approval? Before the fact. Don’t put me in the awkward position of maybe having to say “no” to something you’ve already done.

  32. What about service hours given by a Boy Scout to a Cub Scout Pack? I am involved in both a Pack and a Troop. In the past we have recruited Boy Scouts in the Troop to volunteer at our Pack events (Like Blue and Gold and Rally Night). The Pack leadership has signed the Scouts Service Log and given them credit for Service hours for their efforts. Recently I was told that a Scout can not get credit for service with-in the scouting program. (approved by the Scout master or not) This doesn’t sound right to me. If we can’t offer the Boy Scouts service hours for helping out the Cub Scouts then why would they volunteer? I can’t find anything in writing from BSA that supports this restriction either way. Please help!!

    • There is nothing in writing. This gives you some idea of what BSA is thinking when it says service project

      Regarding your second question: “If we can’t offer the Boy Scouts service hours for helping out the Cub Scouts then why would they volunteer?”
      Because they are defined by 3rd and 4th points of the Scout Law. Try this: never again, in announcing service opportunities of any kind, say “counts for service hours.” You will be amazed at the boys who show up. (Plus you have saved your breath for more important things.) In fact, I bet right now your scouts who volunteer already have the service hours they need … not just for rank advancement, but for any honor society they would like to join.

  33. “Show me what a man does with his hands that I may know his heart”. =Amish proverb.

    One’s time on this earth is limited, the longer one has spent here, the less time it seems there is . We teach by instruction, by requirement, and by example.
    One can work for pay ($$) to help provide our family’s food and shelter. We can work for “the good of it”, because our fellow creatures need our help, because we see the benefit of it (however), or because it is “required”. Which is the example we would teach our boys (and girls?) with?

    From Stephan Grellet:
    ” I expect to pass through this world but once.
    Any good thing, therefore, that I can do
    or any kindness I can show to any creature,
    let me do it now.
    Let me not defer or neglect it,
    for I shall not pass this way again.”

    How to “teach” our children to SEE a need and FIND a way to fulfill it? By showing them how WE seek out needs and fulfilling them. Many was the time I accompanied my dad or mom to a Lions Club or Sorority activity . I saw how their work (service) benefitted others. Scout Troops should certainly seek out and do things that need to be done. ASK yur Scouts about this. ACCEPT their ideas and help them fulfill them. But hen, if they are helping others outside of the “tan shirt” world, find a way to acknowledge that good service too.

    “Double Dip”? Not necessarily. Student Service Learning (public school) hours herebouts is often used as JTE hours. Eagle Service Project hours are often counted for SSL in turn. Church ushering? Food pantry? Snow shoveling? Be creative in your acceptance. Prior approval? Not always possible. Have the Scout explain his reasons and the benefit (Reflection on the form?) and discuss with him, rather than discourage him from helping.

    See you on the trail.

  34. Can fundraising by itself count as a service project?

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