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Leave your feedback on these Venturing award prototypes

Now that the requirements for the new Venturing awards have been released, attention turns to what the awards themselves will look like.

Will they be medals? Badges? A combination of the two?

Turns out you and other Venturers or Venturing advisors can have a say in the final decision. But you need to leave your feedback soon.

Most Venturers I’ve talked to want awards that look unique to Venturing — something nobody else has. No matter what ends up being used to represent the Venturing, Discovery, Pathfinder and Summit awards, the new requirements show me that these awards will help Venturers get even more out of an already awesome program.

The volunteer-led team behind the changes to Venturing is looking for constructive feedback based on the pictures I’ve posted below. As we learned in Wood Badge, feedback is a gift and will be treated as such.

The collection of sticky notes you see is from volunteers and professionals who left their feedback in person at the National Annual Meeting in Nashville, Tenn., this week. But you have a voice, too, so be heard by leaving a comment.

Time is of the essence here, so please share your feedback by Wednesday, May 28.

Medals

Important: The medals below are in first-draft form. The actual ones would look much nicer and have a loop on top, like the very unique-looking Powder Horn award.

In other words, use your imagination on these. The first three would be shiny and powder-coated, and the yellow would be the real Venturing yellow — which didn’t come out well in the prototype. The Summit award (far right) would be bright chrome with reflective black enamel.

As you look from left to right, you’ll see the Venturing, Discovery, Pathfinder and Summit awards.

venturing emblems 5

 

Patch Design A

Venturing awards - A

Patch Design B

From top: Pathfinder, Discovery, Venturing. The Summit Award would be a separate medal if this option is selected.

Venturing awards - B

Patch Design C

From top: Pathfinder, Discovery, Venturing. The Summit Award would be a separate medal if this option is selected.

Venturing awards - C

What do you think?

Do you like the medals? The patches? A combination? Share your comments.

venturing emblems 1

285 Comments on Leave your feedback on these Venturing award prototypes

  1. Patch Design C has my vote

  2. Chris Ford // May 23, 2014 at 9:07 pm // Reply

    C and B are identical

    • Take one more look.

      • Looks like the only difference is size.

        • Look at the large patch in B. It is an oval. Then look at the large patch in C, it has points extending from the oval

      • Dewey Barber // June 24, 2014 at 6:49 pm // Reply

        My name is Dewey Barber, I’m currently the advisor for crew 78 in Okinawa Japan. My adults and youth members love the medal ideas. We think it gives a more of a journey image and sense of completion. I personally like the stages to the summit. My ideas in Japan is to have my crew reach to the summit and complete it with a climb on MT. Fuji. I started this crew and really enjoying the experience. Go for the medals and and have patch for each medal and a knot to represent the summit medal.

        Go Venturing!

    • Cody Scott // May 23, 2014 at 9:16 pm // Reply

      Yes, you are right. But, design C, pathfinder patch has the compass points outside the circle.

      • Fair enough, but I can see folks angry from trying to sew them either way.

  3. Bill James // May 23, 2014 at 9:09 pm // Reply

    Medals, but with clutch pins to pin to the shirt pocket or above the shirt for women. No “danglers” from pockets — bad design especially for women, and they break/fall off easily (especially if like the Powder Horn device>

  4. I’m not keen on any of the medals, but off the top of my head I can’t think of a suggestion. Especially if the Summit award is supposed to be SO AMAZING…..the award doesn’t seem to signify that. I’d like to see a knot available signifying earning the Summit award. Should be as worthy as the Arrow of Light.

    • Michael O'Donnell // May 23, 2014 at 10:15 pm // Reply

      I agree. A knot is a must.

  5. I’m more partial to the medal design than the patches. The small parts would be very hard to sew on and look uniform. The medals would be much easier to wear and change. We could even devise ceremonies for changing the medals out.

    • The more I look at all of the designs, the more I am thinking the patches are not really the best representative for the program. I think cutting the logo would imply that newer members were only “partial” members or “less worthy” than others and I don’t think that is the message we want to project. I think the concept with the medals at least maintains the full logo for all four which doesn’t imply the members are “partial” in any way.

      • My thoughts exactly. I don’t like patches where they are not complete unless you do the whole thing, when in fact, each ‘part’ is it’s own accomplishment. Case in point….the patch that replaced the camping award (not badge)…where there are 5 parts to it. Each part is extremely difficult to get, and one is nearly impossible unless you have money….the one where you have to attend high adventure places. My grandson has the other 4 but he will never get that one, so his patch looks ‘incomplete’ and will always be incomplete. That’s sad. And the same issue applies to the badges above.

  6. Cody Scott // May 23, 2014 at 9:14 pm // Reply

    Patch design c has my vote

  7. Tom Petrik // May 23, 2014 at 9:21 pm // Reply

    Yeah, I had to spend $1200 and reduce the powderhorn to a 3d image and cast the smaller Powderhorn lapel pin in silver– which supply kept, thank goodness I made enough to sell some and get my money back, and used to make the one they sell. Women wanted something without that loop they could wear. There’s no way the loop concept would be liked by females. I knew that when I sold most of what I had at the 2005 jambo. Many thanks to the venturing leaders who helped reimburse that cost.

    There is no reason for ANY award below summit to be a medal, so why do that? Do we use medals for each and every Boy Scout rank? Patches would be better.

    And the parts fitting together? Way too much a burden to match the way they look in the pictures, whether metal or patch. Find a better way to make the patches and a decent looking medal.

    • The patches. Too much detailed sewing. Sure, you could glue or use badge magic; and run the risk of ruining a shirt.

      Medals. Why not keep the Silver, maintain some continuity with the past.

      A Scout/Scouter who earned Silver in Explorers in 1960 or Venturing in 1990 can readily connect with a Scout who earns it in 2020; and vice versa.

      I’m open minded (I think) but this seems like change for change sakes. Keep the Silver, keep the Ranger. Keep the history. I don’t see Eagle ending anytime soon.

  8. Doug Young // May 23, 2014 at 9:21 pm // Reply

    I’m partial to medals, especially when our male ventures are potentially wearing BSA ranks as well if they’re simultaneously writing on Eagle (which at least some will be)

    If the medals lose out, I like C.

    I’ll poll my youth this week and get their opinions.

  9. Colin Talbot // May 23, 2014 at 9:22 pm // Reply

    The medals have my vote. Instead of having them like the Powder Horn one and hanging, make it like the Eagle Scout award and have it pinned to the shirt but still hanging

  10. I am not sure the difference between patch B & C…

    My suggestion is start from the center & build out-> Diamond -> compass -> oval… for summit I would treat like the eagle that would have a cloth badge (maybe the oval with a different color scheme) and the dangle

    However…. my first thought was to have a set of patches that would build in to a scenic image of some sort…. modern looking but paying tribute to the out doors and program specialties

    just thoughts

  11. Terry Demmer // May 23, 2014 at 9:25 pm // Reply

    If the summit award is supposed to be the top award.. It should reflect that and be unique. It should be a medal with an associated knot as well to eliminate the need for always having dangles. The rest of the awards should be basic individual patches that can be easily worn by anyone, men or women. Slicing a Venturing logo into puzzle pieces that are earned on e part at a time is contrary to marketing the logo properly.

    • Look at the ranks Tenderfoot to 1st Class

      • True bill, but Tenderfoot is the whole FDL, and 2nd Class is the whole scroll and 1st Class is both combined. I guess you could retcon the Scout Rank which wasn’t a rank up till now, but still…

        • But they are still WHOLE patches, the design is just different. This doesn’t look nice, nor would it be easy to sew on. Even a machine pro would be pulling their hair out at all those tiny twists and turns!

  12. Tom Petrik // May 23, 2014 at 9:25 pm // Reply

    Sorry, wrong jambo, probably 01. Strive for accuracy, but it don’t always succeed as I get older

  13. Having worn uniforms while doing activities, I dislike having medals on them. Pin backs are very painful if there is impact at that point (and there always seems to be). Medals that hang get broken and lost. They also get run through the wash accidentally. I like the patch with smooth edges (B) best. Easiest to sew on.

  14. I like the patches along with an additional medal for summit only.

    B or C could work and when Summit is earned, a knot and medal are added.

    Overall, it has the air of advancement vice recognition due to the additive and progressive nature of the levels. That is not a criticism though. I am in favor of the changes…but let’s call a spade a spade…

  15. I think dangles are hard… but I do like the medal idea. Maybe you start with a patch then add medal parts (eg bar, then ribbon type thing, then finally the Summit piece/medallion thing on the end), all coming together making the crowning achievement — the complete Summit medal (with a knot!). Someone previously mentioned the fact that partial pieces might make some feel lower/less complete/etc. and I think that’s important too.

  16. Ok so I am going to be the one to say this:

    I don’t like any of them. They are complicated and unimaginative.

    • Glad you were the first. I don’t either. I prefer the medals, but they are dull in color and I don’t see much difference between them. Each is an honor and should have it’s own symbolism….by that I mean being able to tell one from another, and personally I do not like pewter….or at least that should be for the lowest rank, with silver or gold for the top.

      And I, too, am not impressed with the patches which I don’t like anyway.

  17. The medals just don’t wow me. The universal emblem is the symbol of the Boy Scouting program, so they seem out of place.

    As to the patches, splitting the Venturing emblem does not seem right to me.

  18. Christian Alvarado // May 23, 2014 at 9:54 pm // Reply

    I like patch design A because it’s different than the scout ranks which are kept in the oval, yet a cool throwback to the cub badges that form the bigger diamond.

    I do agree that it’d be difficult to sewn on, but this way you don’t have to take a previous rank off first.

    I also think that the Summit should have a medal to be worn at formal occasions, similar to the Eagle.

  19. alicecdean // May 23, 2014 at 10:02 pm // Reply

    I like the medals and “A” because I like the medals and the way “A” is put together as the scout earns each award.

  20. Art Collins // May 23, 2014 at 10:06 pm // Reply

    I think the patches are lame. I prefer medals. A pin (similar to the Bobcat pin, though larger) for the first award would also be appropriate.

    • Christian Alvarado // May 23, 2014 at 10:24 pm // Reply

      I also prefer medals, but having one for each rank dilutes the importance of the highest rank in my opinion.

  21. The pieces patch would be a nightmare to get sewn on properly.

    I think it would be better to build a Summit medal on the look of an Eagle medal. Suspend it from a ribbon in the Venturing colors and give it more heft. What I see here looks more like mothers’ pins.

  22. Michael O'Donnell // May 23, 2014 at 10:10 pm // Reply

    Each award should be an award in and of itself. The patch designs scream, “You haven’t finished anything!!!” A Venturer should be able to display their award with pride and everyone should be able to see that they have accomplished something and not merely receive a piece of a puzzle that doesn’t even represent the entire Venturing emblem in some cases.

    Also, keep in mind with the medals, the comparison is made to the Powder Horn Medal, which doesn’t fit on the current uniform design because of the buttons/snaps. I’ve also heard stories that the Powder Horn Medals break off from the loop that connects them to the pocket. Please do not award our teens more things which they cannot wear. I prefer the medals (it doesn’t necessarily have to be the design shown here) but let’s not attach them to the buttons. I really like that the Summit is more reflective than the others…cool idea.

  23. Julie Ramsey // May 23, 2014 at 10:12 pm // Reply

    Metals!

  24. Rich Moore // May 23, 2014 at 10:18 pm // Reply

    None on the designs looks good. Slicing a Venturing logo into puzzle look silly.
    Try something unique. Go with Venturing Award epaulets.

    The Venturing Award could be simple be earning your green “Fruitloops” with a Venturing Logo on the sleeve.

    The Discovery Award could be a large military style green epaulet with a embroidered “Bronze” Venturing Logo and narrow Bronze stripe.

    The Pathfinder Award could be a large military style green epaulet with a embroidered but recycled “Gold” Venturing Compass Rose” with two narrow Gold stripes at the bottom

    The Summit Award could be large military style green epaulet with a embroidered re-purposed Venturing Silver Award Logo design with a Silver Stripe at the top and the bottom of the epaulet as well as a re-purposed Venturing Silver Award medal with a white ribbon with a narrow blue and a narrow red vertical stripe.

    Something old and some thing new. Keep some the award history. Additional, National should extend the deadline for completing the old Venturing awards until Dec 2015. It’s not fair to the youth otherwise.

  25. Shon Montgomery // May 23, 2014 at 10:33 pm // Reply

    I don’t like the medals, patches are the way to go. The youth don’t need to walk around looking like a low budget movie general. Now about these patches did some one design them this morning on the drive to work? We can do better. If I had to pick out of these c would have to be my choice sadly.

  26. The Medals have my vote, however they should be pin on’s like the eagle scout and silver award instead of button on’s. And have they released a prototype of the Summit Award knot?

  27. The patches. Too much detailed sewing. Sure, you could glue or use badge magic; and run the risk of ruining a shirt.

    Medals. Why not keep the Silver, maintain some continuity with the past.

    A Scout/Scouter who earned Silver in Explorers in 1960 or Venturing in 1990 can readily connect with a Scout who earns it in 2020; and vice versa.

    I’m open minded (I think) but this seems like change for change sakes. Keep the Silver, keep the Ranger. Keep the history. I don’t see Eagle ending anytime soon.

  28. Sorry, those patches are hideous at best.

    The medals are “ok” but I’d prefer to see them without the fleur-de-lis. It wasn’t used before, I’m not sure why we would start incorporating it now.

  29. Chance Sloan // May 23, 2014 at 10:52 pm // Reply

    I like patch design C, with the Summit being a medal.

  30. None of the above. Nothing can replace the current line up of medals for Gold and Silver. They are commensurate in looks and status with the achievement. Both clearly show separation from each other, in other words it is clear what each medal is for. The preliminary suggestions are muddled. They look like each other. The Silver Square Knot is far easier to wear than device pins that can draw blood when they are driven into the chest. Additionally the square knot is far easier to unpick from a shirt than a large unwieldy patch. Change is inevitable, and I hope it all works out. My son will attain Silver this year so thankfully I do not have to worry about reinvesting in the new req’s or new awards. I will leave the old program (especially the irreplaceable Ranger Award) with fond memories as a Scout, Scouter, and dad.

  31. I thought that they were keeping the Silver metal and just changing the name.

    The Summit Award needs to be something VERY special. Akin to the Eagle. Who at first glance can tell which one is special?

    Other than that, I like the metals better but the patches would be much better if they when 3 different patches instead of the hodge pudge arangement. And then continue the Silver Award as it is now.

  32. OK didn’t the post on the new requirements say that existing Venturers start with Discovery? Do they also automatically get the Venturing part?

    What the heck?!! I wish that they would have already had this planned out! They’ve had a year and a half to work this out. We start working on these requirements next month and no insignia design yet? I will have crew memebers meet the Discovery Award by July. I bet we don’t get the Insignia until the Fall. If we are lucky.

    • While the new requirements did say that, many many posts in the past have stated that existing Venturers will automatically get the Venturing rank (as opposed to just skipping the patch/medal/whatever).

    • Chris Soundis // May 24, 2014 at 12:28 pm // Reply

      What IS happening is that current Venturers are considered to have already earned the Venturing Award, so yes they automatically get the Venturing part but must earn Discovery. Your source probably meant that current Venturers will start by working on Discovery, hence the slight misinterpretation.

      My comment to every is to give National their space and let them do their job, which they are in fact doing. There were many ideas for the requirements, then they had to focus them, make the awards reasonable, create resources, etc. It is a long process and look at Eagle, it wasn’t even a rank when it was first conceived. It didn’t even have an Eagle project for many years. My point here is that things take time to perfect, and National is trying to get it as right as possible the first time.

      This has been well planned out, as there are very many steps to making a Nation-wide program that most people are not aware of. As for when we see the actual supplies in scout stores, I predict late summer or early fall. This is because the decision must be made on the designs, have thousands put into production, ship them from the patch company to the National Distribution center, then finally to the scout stores.

      Source: 2013-2014 Area VP, 2014-2015 Region VP

  33. Rich Moore // May 23, 2014 at 11:29 pm // Reply

    Question, If they are planning patch design of Venturing award, where are they going to be worn at on the shirt? Is national going to make the youth remove there Eagle and an Arrow of Light patches to free up space on the shirt for a Venturing Award patch?

    • “Make the youth remove the Eagle and AOL”??

      There should be room for both these patches and the AOL. And as this is Venturing, and not Boy Scouts, should not the Venturing awards take precedence over the Boy Scout Awards? You don’t see Sea Scouts complaining they can’t wear their boy scout rank patches on their Sea Scout uniforms? I’d rather Eagle Scouts in Venturing wear the knot, regardless of their age.

      • MB. Since Venturers can earn Eagle, they should be wearing Eagle. If we want to position Venturing as “Scouting’s Next Step” then the answer is really obvious. If we have a youth under 18 who earned it, he wears it. Period.
        As for Arrow of Light, all my crew’s recipients regardless of age wear the knot, as there is no mention in the insignia guide that AoL can be worn on the Venturing uniform.

        • Chris Soundis // May 25, 2014 at 1:47 pm //

          To clarify Rob, Venturing is not “Scouting’s next step” as you put it. It is its own program designed for high adventure. Yes, older boy scouts decide to join it, but that is their decision. It is not a direct line.

        • On the contrary Chris, if you take a look, you will find that “Venturing, Scouting’s Next Step” is actually a marketing line the BSA has used on posters and brochures for well over a decade. You will find that tag line in quite a few places. The BSA has long positioned Venturing as a tool to retain Scouts and give them new challenges.

    • Chris Soundis // May 24, 2014 at 1:23 pm // Reply

      I think you are referring to the Eagle rank patch and AOL arrow? AOL arrow I have never personally seen on a Venturing uniform, but just remember that it need to come off when the scouter is 18+ and replaced with the square knot. AS FOR THE EAGLE, if you mean the Eagle rank patch, then it is simple, only one can be worn because they go in the same location. I personally think it is up to the Venturer to decide which to wear, but just like I said with the AOL arrow, it must come off and be replaced with the square
      knot when the scouter reaches 18+

      • How about if there is an alternative Eagle patch worn below the Venturing rank patch similar to how the Arrow of Light is worn on a Boy Scout uniform? This would maintain the same methodology where this is the pinnacle of the previous program allowed to be worn on the advanced uniform.

        • The Eagle knot serves this purpose.

          FWIW, the pinnacle of a scouting program is not any patch or award, but when a youth hikes and camps independently with his/her patrol. Just my opinion.

  34. I would prefer the medals over the patches!

  35. Patrick yim // May 24, 2014 at 12:28 am // Reply

    I like the idea of medals rather than those kinda sorry to say it lame patches. Although the medals need to be different. Like now each (bronze, gold, and silver ) are very different and are unique to each specific award. These should be as well, and I would love to see a design similar to current silver for the summit award

  36. Please, please, please keep the Venturing Silver award medal. It is far superior to the new proposed Summit medal. The highest Venturing medal should be able to hang next to the Eagle medal and have the same stature and class as the Eagle medal, which the current Silver medal does. In addition, the proposed medals are all too similar to each other. Finally, I prefer the ribbon style of the current Venturing medals over the proposed “Powder Horn” loop style.

    I do not like the proposed patches overall, and I can’t tell the difference between Design B and C. Moreover, as another writer mentioned above, if the proposed patches are used, there would be no place to put the Boy Scout rank.

    I prefer medals rather than patches.

  37. Well, It is a youth development program. However, all of the people posting comments that have a profile picture are clearly over 21. I bet all the volunteers designing the awards are too.
    The big sells pitch to get me to take woodbadge was that it would teach me how the boys think and give them a better program. My response was why don’t I just ask THEM what they think we should do.

    The new requirements and awards were developed on what adults thought youth would like. And not to be negative, but I don’t think interest will increase. I know from conversations that alot of dual enrolled members join venturing purely for fun and leave Boy Scouts for earning awards.

    Venturing activities count as “under the auspices of the bsa” and can be used towards awards. Boy Scout activities never counted toward venturing awards however.

    • Doug Young // May 24, 2014 at 12:09 pm // Reply

      Actually, from what I’ve heard (and I have friends on the regional committee) the regional and national youth DID have say in this. At this point, I don’t think the interest is about program, I think it’s about national’s effort! If you look at the communication lines, they don’t even come close to the amount of communication coming out of the Cubbing rewrite.

      If we treated Venturing like it was a full fledged program, rather than a cute side program, the youth would come.

    • Chris Soundis // May 24, 2014 at 1:02 pm // Reply

      Youth have been involved in the process. Yes, you may be seeing the online comments by advisors and other adults, but that’s because most youth respond directly. Through my term, I’ve collected opinions, tallied them and moved them on to the Regional cabinet and the Regional cabinet did the same. What most people do not understand is the usefulness of the VOA structure beyond the crew and council. Area VOAs are a great resource and can get a lot of direct work done for the Regions, while the Regions can efficiently collect and distribute the information. When this first proposal hit the Venturing community, NER had surveyed youth and adults at their spring events, getting HUNDREDS of responses, most of which were youth.

      If you want to learn how to get your youth involved in the VOAs above them, contact me and I will help you connect with your local Area VOA.

      • Chris Soundis // May 24, 2014 at 1:02 pm // Reply

        csoundis0224@gmail.com

  38. Deaf Scouter // May 24, 2014 at 2:49 am // Reply

    I like Patch A and how the pieces go together but with Patch B background of green added because of easier sewing onto the uniform over where Boy Scout rank patches used to be.to cover up those old sewing holes. Patches don’t have to go onto a uniform but a jacket or wall hanging if a Scout is also in a Boy Scout unit now that the age has changed to 18 for both.

    Summit should be a medal just like Boy Scout Eagle. I agree with Kimble that the older Venturing Silver Award medal is superior to the medal designs above so they need to go back to the drawing board to come up with something new yet similar to older Venturing Silver Award shown here: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Venturing/Awards/silver.aspx. I like the Eagle on the old version. Maybe change the background to the full Patch A above with the Eagle on top and the old Venture ribbon and word Venturing. Where the Eagle Award has the knot add the letters BSA or BSA emblem to the Venturing award.

    Makes me wonder when we have such talented youth, why they don’t create a nice medal for themselves?

  39. SJ Lipnichan // May 24, 2014 at 7:24 am // Reply

    Either B or C, but would prefer to see a sewn insignia for Summit, for “everyday” wear, as a matter of practicality–with a medal as well (like Eagle). Pocket dangles are easier to put on, rather than sewing patches, but as one who wore the old uniform/awards pretty regularly, cloth wears better than pins and metal… Especially if you wear a uniform at an activity.

    • Doug Young // May 24, 2014 at 12:10 pm // Reply

      I can’t like the idea of patch for every day / medal for dress enough!

  40. uvaeagle08 // May 24, 2014 at 7:41 am // Reply

    I think Patch Design C is the better option presented. However, I do agree that there should be a medal for the Summit Award and that it should be much nicer than the one’s presented and should be similar to the current Silver Award and/or the Eagle medal. With the requirements for Summit being on par with Eagle (especially an identical service project requirement), the badge should be of the same quality and style. I agree that bringing on the youth to design their own medal would be the best way to go.

    I like how the the patches add elements to them similar to the way Tenderfoot and Second Class combine to make First Class. It adds a visual progression for their growth in the program.

    Regarding the concern about not being able to wear current Boy Scout rank concurrently with the Venturing rank: Being a separate program, I think eliminating the ability to wear current Boy Scout rank could be an option explored with the exception for those who earned the Arrow of Light and Eagle. It would keep the uniforms more separate and would increase the focus on Venturing achievements while still acknowledging those who have earned the highest ranks of the other programs. A possible option would be authorizing youth Venturers to wear the appropriate square knot for Eagle and the Arrow of Light in the way that the youth religious square knot is presently authorized. However, I will admit that this solution does not overtly acknowledge the growth for Scouts who have yet to earn Eagle and are working towards that rank while in a Venturing Crew.

  41. I like the four sections of the build a patch in design A, but like the overall oval shape of B Or C (would be much easier to sew). I also like the idea of the Summit award being both the fourth section of the patch and also a medal, just as Eagle Scout – the patch for the uniform and the medal for non-uniform wear.

  42. I agree with many others. With 4 metals they just aren’t special. This from one of the few that actually earned awards in the old Venturing program. We need 4 unique looking patches and one Silver Award like metal (and a knot).

    Keep the Silver’s horizontal flying eagle but instead of read white and blue metal background place a summit in the background. The ribbon would stay white and green. I believe this would be a highly appropriate bridge of the old, new and bsa roots of the award.

    The Venturing Award patch should obviously be the venturing logo since it’s akin to the Scout rank.

    I don’t have suggestions for Discovery or Pathfinder patches. I would however maintain some bronze and good highlighting in the designs as a throwback to the old venturing.

    The Summit Award patch should be akin to the Eagle Award patch with a the center looking similar to the metal with a horizontal eagle and summit. It would have a wide green border with the text “B.S.A. Venturing” on top and “Summit Award” on bottom in white text.

    Patches would likely be oval or diamond and be placed on the right pocket. First Class-Eagle would have the OPTION of displaying their troop ranks instead.

    As for the knot, I sat keep the old Silver Award green and white background and have the knot strands itself be red, silver, and blue.

  43. I do apologize for my earlier typos. It’s tough for big fingers to type on a phone and I forgot to proofread.

  44. I would like to see a similar progression as the Boy Scout patches. The entire venturing symbol without the compass points for the entry level. It does not make sense to have half. Then have a separate patch with the venturing symbol and compass points combined, no background oval for the discovery level. Then for pathfinders add the green oval. You should have both a patch and a metal for the Summit award like Eagle does. I think the patch could be similar to pathfinders with a few additions. Add the scout motto hanging from the bottom compass point and add the words Adventure, Leadership, Growth & Service to the Oval background or. White ring around the entire thing. The medal could be a smaller version of the final patch. Too bad we can not send you pictures.

  45. Nolemiwi Witawemat // May 24, 2014 at 8:01 am // Reply

    What I don’t like about the patches is how the official logo is split. From a marketing perspective, this does the Venturing program a great disservice. If we are already going to fighting the public battle of getting the word out that “Summit is the new Silver,” then we need to ensure our logo isn’t also cut into pieces. If we’re trying a patch format the builds as progress is earned, the Venturing logo could be in tact in the center and have some other patches that partially or completely surround the logo. I also feel the piecing together of patches is a very “Cub-Scouty” thing, and may turn off some of the youth from wanting to wear them.

    What I don’t like about the medals: cost. Patches are much cheaper to make and buy, and I think we’re going to out-price our Venturers and crews by having 4 medals where the only difference between them is having one or two colors filled in or changing the metal type. At least with the Bronze/Gold/Silver awards, each medal was completely unique, and offset the mental impact on cost. We should ensure that the recognition items, no matter what style or material, should be easily affordable. The last thing we need is to put up more barriers: if we want the world to know about our new awards, we need our Venturers to wear them.

    Personally, I think we should go toward the same model as Boy Scout advancement: cloth items for all levels, and a really nice medal for the highest award worn at formal occasions. Unlike the ranks of Boy Scout advancement, some of which can be earned very quickly (and thus, requires more frequent sewing) the Venturing advancement is slower and has fewer levels. The Venturing logo should be a part of every item, but an emblem/symbol of each level should also be contained in the award item (Venturing Award can just be the logo itself).

    Keep in mind that we can’t just hand the awards to the Venturers, but also need to publicly recognize them. We need recognition items that have a deeper meaning. If we take the cloth prototypes of the above, what do I tell a Venturer when they earn the bottom half of our logo? “I present you with the bottom half of our logo, which contains the letter V. V is the first letter of the word Venturing.” It just doesn’t have the same potential to inspire as, for example the Silver Award: an eagle in flight, representing the Venturer’s soaring achievement of the highest level. That’s something that can inspire the Venturer and his/her peers.

    Is this forum the only place to submit ideas, or can they also be submitted via e-mail? Some of my Venturers are very artistic and may want to submit drawings as attachments. Where can I direct them to go? I am sure they’d want to use their talents to help impact this decision.

  46. Monica Lee Silbas // May 24, 2014 at 8:35 am // Reply

    We liked them all, but my favorite is the first one that builds on award on top of the other. That’s patch design A.

  47. Cheryl Bugner // May 24, 2014 at 8:36 am // Reply

    Patch Design A is the only logical progression through the 4 ranks.. It allows for wearing the basic Venturing symbol early, and the Pathfinder and Summit rank patch positions make sense with their names. I prefer something that can be sewn on — pins get lost.. I agree that the Summit rank pin needs to be more special — perhaps make it the only non-diamond shaped by including the rays above/below as in the patch design.

  48. Darwin Cook // May 24, 2014 at 9:20 am // Reply

    I’m not sure that any of the options are spectacular enough to keep a young man moving forward. BSA culture is “how many have earned their Eagle?”. The Eagle Award is a fine peace of hardware, I believe that these awards (at least Summit Award) will need to be greater more impressive than Eagle. If the Ranger, Trust, Qwest, awards stay, It seems to me that they will out shine the actual Venturing program awards. I like the patch idea for Venturing, Duscovery, Pathfinding, however the background body of patch should maintain a constant, with each center changing only. The metals shown seem to have a weak appearance, might break between venturing diamond and BSA Eagle.

  49. Jeep Fortuna // May 24, 2014 at 9:45 am // Reply

    Like the medals, but as others have commented it is difficult to discern the magnitude of the Summit other than it’s golden fleur-de-lis.

  50. K. Robert Wade Assoc. Advisor - Venture Crew 176 // May 24, 2014 at 9:52 am // Reply

    So are these ranks or are these medals? If they are medals then why not ribbons? I like to see Ventures wearing the Bronze, Gold and Silver in a row. When a Venture earns the Summit does that mean the other three achievements leave the uniform? The multi section patch reminds me of the multiple OA patches for attending all three conclaves in a given year – not what I want to see in rank or awards medals. The new awards are fine, but I prefer separate medals with a ribbon, just like bronze, gold & silver. There should also be an appropriate knot for summit when the Venture reaches adult age.

    • Chris Soundis // May 24, 2014 at 12:53 pm // Reply

      Ribbons have not been added yet. In the paragraph accompanying the medals proposal, it says there will be an added loop to the top for turning it to a medal.

      • Chris, I think the article says it will be a loop like the Powder Horn award, which would mean no ribbons.

  51. Reginald Grier // May 24, 2014 at 10:25 am // Reply

    I like all of the medals and patches. I think they should be made available to Crew Advisors for distribution to Crew leaders. There must be requirements for each award so that commendations can be written.

  52. I like Patch design A, and I don’t like the “medals” idea. Medals are too hard to wear when you’re doing a lot of outdoor activities. I think we could do better than any of these, if we want to keep our Venturers interested in the achievement side of the program. None of these choices are appealing to teens.

  53. I’m not too hung up on the design of the awards. I’ll leave that to the Venturers. But I do have comments about the form of the awards.

    I really think that several forms should be used.

    * Pins (what I see above called “medals” strikes me more as pins). Pins should be made for all 4 awards, and would be useful for those crews who have t-shirts and polos as uniforms.

    * Patches should be made for all 4 awards for everyday wear on the field uniform.

    * Medals. A medal should be made ONLY for the Summit award, and it needs to be similar to the Eagle, QM, and present Venturing Silver. This ensures this award is seen as the equivalent of these. Keep in mind, medals are for formal wear, not day to day wear.

    * Knot. A knot needs to be made for the Summit, same as for the Eagle, QM, and current Silver.

    As to the designs. B and C seem the same to me. Also, I recommend people taking a look at the old designs used for the Explorer Scout and Explorer Awards of the 40s and 50s for some inspiration and ideas.

    As to someone’s comment regarding the wearing of the AOL and Eagle patch with these Venturing award patches. I don’t see how a Venturing award patch would prevent the wearing of an AOL patch below it. But, for me, the Venturing awards should be more important to the Venturer then Boy Scout Awards. I’d prefer that Venturers who have earned Eagle to wear the knot and NOT the Eagle patch, leaving the left pocket for the Venturing awards.

    • Doug Young // May 24, 2014 at 12:23 pm // Reply

      I agree totally with the combined approach. As to the AOL/Eagle: I’m not so much worried about those specifically. As you pointed out, there’s already knots to deal with that. I’m more worried about the 15 year old who is working on both sets of ranks simultaneously. He deserves to be able to wear both recognition devices. Thinking about it, I’d like to see a patch for everyday wear, an optional pin for custom uniforms and for those who are working both programs, and a real medal for Summit that compares well with QM and Eagle.

    • AOL, Eagle, Silver, & QM Scouts should wear their appropriate knots on Venturing Uniform leaving Left Pocket STRICTLY for Venturing Advancements (NO Eagle Patches Or AOL Patches Or QM Patches).

  54. E. Goelzer- Youth member // May 24, 2014 at 11:37 am // Reply

    As a youth member in Venturing, I have received the Silver and Ranger awards and have been on many Scouting activities so I can give you guys a pretty good idea of the award prototypes from a youth’s perspective.

    Do not go for only the medals. When I was working towards my Silver award a few years ago, it was disappointing that I couldn’t wear the medal for Bronze and Gold to crew meetings, NYLT/NAYLE courses, or activities because the medals can only be worn to “special events.” If a youth is working towards the awards, then he or she needs to be recognized for his or her achievements on everyday Scouting activities.

    I like the idea of the Patch Design A that builds on itself (much like Boy Scouts up to Star). However, Patch Design A is too difficult to sew on. If you go with this design, you will constantly see crooked patches and gaps!

    So here is my opinion for the best type of awards. Keep the oval shape of Patch Design B. The oval shape reflects our ties to Boy Scouts. (As much as Venturers don’t want to be related to younger boys, we are all members of BSA and should be somewhat related to each other.) For the Venturing award, have only the “Venturing V” in the middle of the oval patch with green background. For the Discovery award, have the entire official venturing logo in the middle of the oval patch. For the Pathfinder award, have the official venturing logo with the lower half of the compass points in the middle of the oval patch. Lastly, for the Summit award have the entire official venturing logo with the entire compass points on the oval patch. In addition, have a fancy medal AND a knot for the Summit (just as the Eagle has a youth patch, knot, and medal). If the Summit award is the same difficultly as Eagle, then it needs to have a knot (as the Silver award does.) The knot can be the same design as the current Silver award. For the Summit medal, I like the idea of the “Powderhorn loop” rather than the ribbon because in a few decades from now the ribbons are going to be deteriorated and stained whereas the loops will not.

    Now, if a boy is both a member of Boy Scouts and Venturing, then the Venturing patch should take precedence over his Boy Scout patch. If he is an Eagle Scout, then he can simply wear the Eagle knot.

    • Anonymous // May 24, 2014 at 3:11 pm // Reply

      I also hold the Silver Award. You can wear the Bronze and Gold ribbon bars and Ranger bar to informal occasions. For formal, you hang the medals.

    • I agree.
      1. use the patch/medal structure (patches working up to a ribbon medal/knot)
      2. keep or update silver award for top rank, don’t throw history out the window.
      4. don’t do puzzle patches, period.
      5. no scout patches on VC uniform. allow eagles, even if under 18, to wear the knot.

  55. The medals need to be more distinguished from one another, something more than just the metal colors and enamel colors. If you showed me anyone of those at first glance, I wouldn’t be able to tell you which was which. Scout ranks are more distinguished from one another than that, so why not do the same with Venturing awards?

  56. I submitted several designs and wanted to use the old Venturing Silver Eagle but was told that the Eagle was over used. From my point of view, the Eagle represents summiting in a number of ways so it is a good symbol.
    Many are suggesting that the Venturing Silver medal continued to be used but I like Alan’s idea of placing a summit (top of the Venturing logo) in the background replacing the red, white and blue.
    I like cloth badges but Venturing will continue to have a problem if boys want to wear the cloth Boy Scout rank badge. This has been a problem for decades and I do not see a simple answer unless we say Venturing ranks for the Venturing uniform and Boy Scout Ranks for the Boy Scout uniform. Back in the earlier years of Exploring, boys would often wear both their Boy Scout rank and their Explorer rank on their pocket. In Venturing, boys should be able to wear the Eagle and AOL square knots at any age.
    I think MB summarized a realistic direction.

    • I designed the VOA patches and wanted to use the Eagle on that patch for the Summit patch award but like I said, I was told it was over used.

  57. Chris Soundis // May 24, 2014 at 12:51 pm // Reply

    MEDALS

    If it were to be medals for each rank, I think the current proposal would be sufficient and that the Summit medal would be perfect. However, I feel that having a medal each rank seems to depreciate the meaning of the top award’s medal. Any decision on the ribbon to suspend them from yet?

    PATCHES

    I like the idea of having a small addition of the full insignia added each rank, but I do not like the idea of it being sold as segments. When put on the uniform, yes the Venturer will not need to remove it, but they will add pieces to it and it will look incomplete and unprofessional.

    In my opinion, each of the patch designs having only HALF of the Venturing logo as an option for an award is insulting and just plain looks bad. The first award is the VENTURING award, have that be the whole VENTURING logo, nothing more, nothing less. It will build the trademark, make the Venturer feel like they are part of the program, and will make the Venturer look more professional despite what rank they are. Then for Discovery and Pathfinder, add each half of the compass. For Summit, do what is suggested in Types B and C, a knot and medal.

    My favorite of the 3 is probably type A, though I have that 1 suggestion above for all 3 of the designs. The background just seems to take away from the patch.

  58. Travis Burks // May 24, 2014 at 1:19 pm // Reply

    Should use Medals to acknowledge the completion of the awards!! Everyone loves medals.

    • Travis Burks // May 24, 2014 at 1:24 pm // Reply

      I agree with earlier posts the eagle needs to be incorperated in the summit award like it was with silver!!

  59. I don’t understand the controversy over whether to wear Boy Scout rank badges as a Venturer. Why would they do this? I would assume that when in Boy Scout uniform, one wears Boy Scout insignia, and when in Venturing uniform, one wears Venturing insignia.

    I do think using patches for the 1st three levels of Venturing awards is more practical; pins & medals get caught on things and fall off (this is a regular complaint from my Girl Scouts about their uniforms.)

    Splitting the Venturing logo seems awkward to me. I would find a plain Venturing logo for the Venturing award more attractive, with the higher levels having the logo with progressive embellishments, and a medal & knot for the Summit level as others have suggested above.

  60. Emma Springfield // May 24, 2014 at 2:44 pm // Reply

    Patch A, I like the way the 4 separate pieces come together to form the whole image in the end.

  61. Christina // May 24, 2014 at 2:57 pm // Reply

    I really like the medals, although the Summit award should stand out more.

  62. Crew Guide of Crew 497 // May 24, 2014 at 3:06 pm // Reply

    I think the medal designs look best. Especially since the current Venturers are unable to go for the Venturing rank, making the patch designs incomplete for them. Though I think the there should also be a knot that they can wear on their uniform so that their achievement can still be recognized during informal events

  63. Why did all of the rank names of Venturing have to change? Especially why retire the “Silver” award. Imagine if all of the Boy Scout ranks just changed over night and Eagle was retired.

    I don’t think the names of the ranks was what was “missing,” nor do I think changing the name of the ranks is going to increase participation in the Venturing program. Making the program attractive and exciting to young people and then promoting the program is what will increase participation. Moreover, the new rank names remind me of the names of the ranks in Trail Life.

    Improve the patches and keep the current Silver Award name and medal as the highest rank in Venturing.

    • Right on Kimble. I fought very hard to keep the Silver award as the top award but was told it was not recognized well enough. Okay, how long will it take to get the Summit award recognized?? Nothing has value if the name is changes all the time. Explorers/Exploring/Venturing has had at least 5 names changes: Ranger, Silver, Explorer Achievement Award, Explorer GOLD award, Venturing Silver.
      My proposed patch designs can be viewed here: http://www.sageventure.com/venturing/VenturingAwardsDesigns.html

      • Sam Dunkin, Cmte. Chair, Crew 330, Ft. Clatsop District // May 24, 2014 at 5:47 pm // Reply

        I really like your suggestions, though perhaps the Scouting Trefoil at the top should be added.

        • Your suggestion is good. My suggestion is for others to think outside of the box.

        • I tried adding the Scouting Trefoil and to get the detail one wants, it begins to overlap other important parts. I design patches so I feel my comment is insightful.

        • “scouting trefoil” what is that?

          The symbol of Scouting is the Fleur-de-lis. The trefoil (a 3 leaf clove) is Guiding symbol.

        • K. Robert Wade Assoc. Advisor - Venture Crew 176 // May 25, 2014 at 8:52 pm //

          I agree MB, the Girls Scouts also use the Trefoil.

      • At least you remember it Craig. Hardly anyone does these days.

        -Rob
        Explorer Achievement Award Class of 1991

      • SJ Lipnichan // May 25, 2014 at 9:30 am // Reply

        I was in college, already, so I didn’t have to “sell” earning the Silver Award as an achievement, but I did have more than a few conversations about why Silver was the highest award (and not Gold). That is the only thing in all of the arguments for changing the awards that made a little sense to me, but if we suffer poor name recognition for an award first created in 1949, I wonder how long until the Summit Award gains traction…

    • Madison Katz // May 25, 2014 at 2:05 pm // Reply

      since Venturing is clearly not as widely accredited as Boy Scouting, an obvious change was needed. consider only .7% (every 7 out of 1000) of Venturers earned any of the awards, clearly something wasn’t working. in addition, it’s not the award (because the recognitions you are referring to are awards, not ranks) names that are just being changed. the requirements were changed to make them more feasible and actually go with what crews are already currently doing instead of limiting them to a scope of random requirements to activities they may have no interest in doing. if you’ve actually looked at the requirements, you’ll realize that they’re much much better than the old ones. although you personally may dislike the names, National did an excellent job of researching them and actually checked with multiple sources such as college admissions teams who expressed what would sound most impressive to them in an application. since these changes have already been made, there is no point in continuing to complain about them. I believe that Venturing has made great strides forward with this new system (and there are many more to be made still) and these changes are an improvement. keeping the program the way that it has been, with a consistent decrease in participation, would’ve been a recipe for its slow demise. as an active youth, I’ve seen the drop in participation and the effect of the lack of structure. this was a necessary step in order to breathe new life into what could possible be one of the best youth programs available to young adults.

      • You are correct, only a small percentage of Venturers earned awards but look at history and that was the way it was for Eagle. After over 50 years, people started to understand the value of earning Eagle and now many boys earn it because of the increased opportunities in jobs and universities.
        By changing the name of the award, all that has been accomplished is a longer period of time before the new top Venturing award is recognized. Since they have changed the top award name at least 6 times since Explorers began, count on a change again.
        When scouting had the Venturing Division (ended around 2009), I strongly feel that a number of good things for senior scouts were made possible. Since that time, Venturing has only gone done hill and not because of a name change but a name change is not going to help.

        • Madison Katz // May 25, 2014 at 10:38 pm //

          I absolutely see your point. However, with the new requirements, I feel that more people will actually want to earn the awards. This in itself will give more visibility to the program and in turn generate more “publicity” for recognition. With increased participation, the program should be able to reverse the negative slope it’s been going down.

        • “You are correct, only a small percentage of Venturers earned awards but look at history and that was the way it was for Eagle. “–

          Just want to clarify. 1/100 scouts make eagle, but majority of their troop still work toward some level of rank advancement. Only .7% of CREWS worked toward ANY award, meaning more than 99% of crews intentionally do NOT do anything related to the VC awards in their program. that is the problem. Either the program was too complicated to bother with, or because majority of crews didnt implement the requirements, no one else was motivated to add it to the crew focus.

          We took over our 5 year old Crew and no one knew about any award opportunities in venturing. and when we sat in on the adult leadership training, none of it was discussed!

          I agree that names are not the problem and making changes here can slow things down. esp w/ top award.

          streamline the program and then engage every crew to implement it. that’s enough of a challenge. don’t make it more confusing than needed.

          and dont forget Venturing is a co-ed program.

  64. Todd Tingblad // May 24, 2014 at 4:25 pm // Reply

    I like the metal idea. The Patch form I do not like breaking the Venturing Logo. This is a disservice to the logo…the primary symbol of the program. I know that a like thing is dome with the Boy Scout First Class Badge for Tenderfoot and Second Class, but this just does not look right. Better to keep the Venturing Logo in one piece. This would seem to follow better with the first award, Venturing. Having a Venturing Award that you only get part of the Venturing Logo seems a bit odd and delivers the wrong message that earning Venturing only gets one 1/2 of the logo. Kind making you look like only 1/2 a member.

    • I agree that we should not be braking down the Venturing logo. No good company would do such a thing. A good logo stands by itself and I like the Venturing logo.
      A good design for the patches will work the best considering all the conservation.

  65. I personally like the metals better. I don’t really like the patch designs at all. They look tacky. I think they should either improve the design of the patch or do the metals. I think the idea they were going for with the patch was a cool idea. Adding them up like that. The patch just doesn’t look nice in my opinion.

  66. I like the medals, but will our youth want to wear them, rather than a patch? Still, it’s easier to detach from a shirt for washing, and I’m presuming the medal will go on the left pocket button.

    As for patches, if that is the decision, I like NONE of these ideas, as shown. I like the idea of Design A, but with each ‘rank’ on a circular background–sewing on A patches would be difficult, after the first two, and the first two of Designs B and C as well.

  67. Amber Rizwan // May 24, 2014 at 4:37 pm // Reply

    I like patch design A, because you can put all the pieces together and form one whole patch.

  68. I like the medals and the first patch design. They look like great designs to me!

  69. It is pretty clear to me that those proposing change did not get a good spectrum of suggested changes. I read that most liked what we had (maybe some changes like are done to the Boy Scout ranks) but not major changes. If we look at how the award were organized (http://www.sageventure.com/venturing/awards.html), most understood the program.
    I love the program, I just think it is sad that we have to change award names every few year.
    YIV,
    SageVenture

  70. Nate Kidwell // May 24, 2014 at 7:47 pm // Reply

    I like patch design B. The round smooth-edged design would be easy for sewing/badge magic, and I like the idea of the highest award being unique (a medal).

  71. Rachel Eddowes // May 24, 2014 at 8:09 pm // Reply

    I must admit that I’m not a fan of breaking up the Venturing symbol. Wearing half a symbol on a uniform doesn’t seem right.

    These are my recommendations:

    - first rank = patch of FULL Venturing symbol (worn on same pocket/side of uniform that the Boy Scout patches are)
    -second rank = half a border
    -third rank = second half
    -fourth rank = new patch that replaces the other 3 + a medal

    This way the Summit Award would be more easily recognized as an equivalent to Eagle. On that note, what if in addition to the Summit patch there was a square knot to be worn after 21 (like the Eagle knot for after 18). What if it was the same design as the Silver Award knot? That way the Summit and Silver Awards would easily be seen as equals, and all the hard work Silver Award recipients put into it would not be lost and forgotten.

    *******ALSO: Will/Can Venturers who earn the Summit Award be referred to as “Summiteers?” I really like this idea. It would be nice to refer to a Venturer who has earned the highest Award a title like “Summiteer” (just like “Eagle/Eagle Scout”) as opposed to “Summit Award Recipient.” Being referred to as “Silver Award Recipient” never seemed to have the same ring as “Eagle” does.

  72. I’m a current venturing scout. I like the current metals that we have. I like how we have an award that stands out. I don’t think the venturing logo should be split in half you wouldn’t split any of te other logos in half for an award so why do it with this one. The metals would be good but I hope they will be more distinguishable and easier to tell which is which and not get mixed up.

  73. Andy Black // May 25, 2014 at 7:47 am // Reply

    I really like the idea of having a separate medal for the Summit Award but I don’t like the Venturing Symbol being divided into pieces. I think separate patches for the lower awards and a medal for the Summit would be better. The patch designs that are are on this page are really good though.

  74. Patch design A is my favorite. I love that it “grows” through advancement, much like the members of venture.

    Medals, although flashy, literally, are a pain in the butt to wear.

  75. Mary Catherine // May 25, 2014 at 8:51 am // Reply

    Hello,
    I am a current Venture Scout.
    I like the medal ideal. I don’t like the idea of separating patches. My reason is because, Ventures don’t earn “ranks”, and if you start adding a patch it will look a little odd. Also, I think medals stand out much more then patches.

    Although, one thing I don’t like about the medals is that it might be like the Powder Horn Medal. You can’t wear that on the new uniforms, because the buttons aren’t the right size for the loop that is on the Powder Horn Medal. So, we should stick with what we have now, a regular pin medal.

    One more thing, I think the medals look too similar. For example, the awards we have now are completely different from each other, and you can spot the difference from a mile away. The new medals just have a little color difference, and personally I won’t be able to see the difference.

    • Great feedback!
      One correction (also to Ashleigh, above): you are officially “Venturers”. I know, it’s weird. Drove my daughter nuts when I tried to explain it to her. Sometimes I wonder if changing the name for participants to something that rolls off he tongue a little better would improve name recognition!

  76. I like the medals. For the age group these awards are going to represent the patches look childish.

  77. Damon R. Allen // May 25, 2014 at 10:58 am // Reply

    I have been involved in Venturing sine it was created in 1998. I have seen many changes an modifications to the program. Being a Ranger and a recipient of the Silver Award, I am saddened by the fact that most of the awards are going away.

    However, with change, comes new opportunities. Opportunities for all to grow, to learn and experience new things. So, lets give these new changes a chance for the reasons listed. I will now focus on my opinion about the designs for the new awards.

    Firstly, I believe that both, medals and patches/devices should be utilized for the new awards program. Medals that stand out and for special occasions. The patches or devices (like the campaign bars) to be worn on the uniform daily without any worry of losing the “item.”

    The proposed medals above is a great start, they are just too similar to one another. I would recommend something slightly different for each award; Venturing Award being the Venturing Logo itself. Discovery Award being something like a compass or some sort. The Pathfinder Award be represented by something that deals with leadership, like a torch (a nod to Craig Murray here) or a wreath. And the Summit Award should be represented with a summit peak of some sort, and it wouldn’t hurt to have the old Silver Award Eagle incorporated into the design (another nod to Craig Murray). All Venturing Award Medals have stood out, making them look the same or similar just doesn’t seem right.

    To make the medals look like the Powder Horn and Kodiak Devices is an interesting direction to go. They would not work with the current Venturing uniform. The devices work best with the old venturing uniform not the new one. This is due to the snap buttons, the devices just don’t fit properly with the snap buttons and they fall off. Just saying. All I ask is that the medals still look unique and different from each other, and that they can be worn on the Venturing uniform without falling off and becoming lost.

    Secondly, I also encourage the patches too for the reason of the medals falling off of the new Venturing uniform. I am 100% against the multi-patch design. It is too complicated, confusing, and strange. I would recommend a patch for each award like Craig Murray has suggested, in fact I like his designs because, they stand out and each one represents an award in its own right. There is a patch for each rank in the Boy Scouts, I recommend that for Venturing too. It helps represent status in the Crew, the award would be easily recognizable, it would be unique, and it stands out from the distance.

    While still on the subject of patches, I do recommend a “Square Knot” for the Summit Award like there is one for the Eagle and Silver Awards. Venturing is known for being unique and offering unique patches, the Venturing Silver and VLA “Square Knots’ stand out on the uniform. I would encourage a “square Knot patch” that is not a square knot, go for something unique like the figure eight knot, carrack bend, and such. No matter what hues the knot patch would be ,they would stand out representing the recipient had earned the Summit Award and other Venturing wards.

    Lastly, before signing off, I want to send a nod toward Rachel Eddowes for suggesting Venturers who earn the Summit be called ‘Summiteers.’ A brilliant idea and very catchy!

  78. Is the symbol supposed to be a V or a framing square? Because with one side big and the other side small, it looks much more like a framing square: https://www.google.com/search?q=carpentry+framing+square&tbm=isch

    • I love it! We’re building America’s youth!

  79. Madison Katz // May 25, 2014 at 1:45 pm // Reply

    hi, youth Venturer here! personally, I think that medals look better, especially since we’re keeping the awards system and not a rank system in place. patches in Boy Scouting have been signs for ranks, especially since they’re easily removable and such. medals have always been the indicator used for awards. also, in my opinion, the medals look much nicer.

    in addition, I’ve taken a look at some of the award requirements. for taking so long to finally come out with an improved system, these are so much better. the awards are actually cohesive with the program and give credit to Venturers for things they and their crews are already doing.

  80. I like the patch design C best. I like the separate medal for the Summit award, and I like the distinctive shape of the path finder. It is very similar t the option B, but I find the shape of the pathfinder a bit boring in that option.

  81. Sherry McGugin // May 25, 2014 at 4:22 pm // Reply

    Place the Eagle Scout Award next to the Venturing Summit Award and tell me that it is as prestigious looking…..It does not too me. At least the current Silver Award stands out the “Highest Award in Venturing”. The prototype looks like too much like a Powder Horn device or a Kodiak medal.

    • Andy Black // May 26, 2014 at 10:56 am // Reply

      I think that you are right. The medals need to look official, preferably hanging from a ribbon just like the old awards. Medals hanging from the button on the pockets just don’t look good.

  82. Primary award should be metal. Agree with earlier statement that Summit should be a little “more special”, Size of metals appear appropriate, especially since some crews (mine included) do not wear the official uniform, but a crew designed polo. Patches and knots should also be available, but metal should be the primary.
    Faith Venturing – Crew 254 – Knoxville, MD

  83. As a youth i would like to see a patch and metal. Metals to be worn at court of honors and patches to worm on the field uniform

  84. Shannon Siefke // May 25, 2014 at 9:04 pm // Reply

    As for the medals I like the new designs and the patches I think that patch set “A” would be the choice that I like. I spoke with my son who is our current Crew president and he also liked patch set “A” a well.

    Shannon Siefke
    Crew Adviser
    Crew 008
    Oak Ridge Tennessee

  85. I don’t like any of them. I thought they looked too much like a participation patches you get after a camping event. I am veteran and I prefer the medal like the Silver Award because it instills pride in the person and promotes espri de corps. I have to agree with Sherry that the Summit looks pathetic next the Eagle Award. Placing both the Eagle and the Venturing Silver on my son was a great day but if he had earned the Summit with these designs it looks stupid. You should have polled everyone not just a select few about these new awards. My Crew doesn’t even want to be in it anymore saying these patches and medals are lame and earning them gives them no incentive of making themselves better. In their eyes the higher people in the program made the requirements dumber and simplified so more people would be able to earn them. It was supposed to be a challenge to work for and earn and now it is just another patch/ medal

  86. To summarize what I have read, I really like the Rachel Eddowes idea of calling the recipients of the top award, Summiteers. I read that most like continuing to use the “Silver Eagle” as a good emblem as part of the Summit award. The idea of using the Venturing logo split up does not work for me and many others. Keeping the square knot the same is probably wise.
    With respect to wearing the Eagle badge if earned, in Venturing we should wear Venturing rank badges and maybe the Eagle and AOL square knots should be allowed for Venturers of all ages (we do this for the religious award). We certainly do not wear Cub achievements in Boy Scouts except for the AOL patch which for Venturers is more often the AOL square knot.
    Many of my thought align with Damon Allen.

  87. I do not like the splitting of the patch. That is saying your only 1/2 a Venturing Scout. One big selling point is that uniforms are not required, choose your own. The second is the no pressure of requirements. And the fact that current Venturing Scouts can not earn the Venturing Award. And they are all ready doing a program. Change can be a good thing, but I am not sold on this change. Considering that my crew does not wear the Current BSA Field Dress uniform, they wear a polo shirt. And medals would not work. And the divided patch, would look bad with only 1/2 of the center.

  88. Seems like an overload of the Venturing logo. I like the idea of making the Venturing awards unique to the rest of Scouting, but is this logo the only way to do it?
    What about existing Venturers? They will never be able to complete the “puzzle patch” because of the fact they are not eligible to earn the Venturing award.
    Has there ever been a time in BSA history where a new Scout had to begin their journey in the middle of the award sequence?
    I say “back to the drawing board.” Excessive use of the Venturing logo will be redundant and uninspiring.
    Also, wearing a partial patch (like the puzzle-patch used for the National Outdoor Awards) is not flattering for a Scout, it looks incomplete if you don’t earn it all.

  89. I really like the medals. But maybe we should have a full patch for the first award. Then the subsequent awards (maybe a youth’s highest one) can be pinned on it.

    I really like the medals because they include the fleur-de-lis in the design.

    But who cares about me? I’ll try to get my youth to sound off.

  90. Just one more brainstorm: how about the base medal/patch with the plain venturing logo, then on top of that the following devices (pins or patches):
    A bronze star for discovery,
    A golden heart for pathfinder,
    A silver Eagle for the summit?

    The summiteers could actually be awarded a medal with all of the devices stamped on the venturing logo!

  91. Joey Black // May 26, 2014 at 11:33 am // Reply

    Personally, i never liked the medals that hang from a button, or the patches that are earned in pieces. It makes the award much more official to have an actual medal on a ribbon, like the Eagle Scout or Silver award medals. as for the patch, I really like how the Boy Scouts do theirs, where an entirely new patch is earned for each rank. it is easier to distinguish from the others at a glance, and it looks better than having a piece of a patch on your uniform.

    • Darren Tai // May 27, 2014 at 4:50 pm // Reply

      I actually like the patch idea, but the patch and medal combo is not a really good idea. I only wear medals on special occasions. I know there will be lots of summitters who would not wear the medal regularly so they would end up looking like pathfinders.

  92. Michael O'Donnell // May 26, 2014 at 11:41 am // Reply

    Where would patches be worn? It’s very important that we not forget that male Venturers, working toward their Eagle Scout, can wear their rank patch on their Venturing uniform. We should not make them choose which one they will wear.

  93. I like the medals but I’m hesitate because if they have a pocket loop like the Powder Horn award, I would be super nervous wearing the award(s) like I am with the PH award on the current Venturing uniform shirts. With the snap buttons, my PH award would constantly pop off. I recognize that a button could be sewn onto the flap but I haven’t gotten around to doing it, it’s not necessarily a priority of mine. Additionally for the medals, I like the concept of the Venturing, Discovery, and Pathfinder awards as the pocket loop medals but I agree the Summit award should stand out more. Keep the first three as pocket loops and then make the Summit award a pinned ribbon with the medal like the Eagle Scout award and Silver award. Maybe use the same ribbon as the Silver award? (Then one can for sure wear the award without concern of the button popping open and losing it.)

    I do like the idea of patches, like just about every hard-core scouter. Out of the designs above, I like the finished image of Patch Design C the best, I’m just not all that thrilled how the patch images are split up because it looks awkwardly incomplete. It would look better if it was the Venturing logo (Venturing), Venturing logo with points (Discovery), and then add the circle (Pathfinders). But I’m not too sure if I’m thrilled about just starting with the Venturing logo as the first patch but it is something and each stage will look clean and neat.

    Good luck team!
    - A youth Venturing member

  94. I would love to see a pinned ribbon and medal design much like Eagle but if these are the only options given then I would pick C.

    I like patch design C because, personally, the pathfinder badge looks nicer than the one in design B and I agree that the summit award should stand out more. Design A looks incomplete and those of us already in venturing would not receive one of the pieces.

  95. Kelsey Prunier // May 26, 2014 at 1:46 pm // Reply

    Overall, I am not a fan of the proposed options…

    Patch:
    Please do not split up the logo!
    Venturing – Just the logo on a patch
    Discovery – Compass Points (I’m not sure who suggested this early on in the comments, but it’s great!)
    Pathfinder – Compass Point behind a Venturing Logo (Think how great the combination of the designs for tenderfoot and second class look for the first class rank for the Boy Scouts.)
    Summit – The Venturing logo already includes a summit in it. I think it’d be silly to try and add a second summit into the design. Since this is an award of significance, what if the Summit design was just the pathfinder design, but completely silver?

    Medal:
    I don’t think it’s necessary to have a medal for every award.Thinking across the board in all of the BSA programs, only the highest award has the option for the medal. AoL has an optional (rarely worn) AoL rank medal bar. Eagle has the medal and all of the other ranks have optional pins. I think having pins for the three lower awards is fine and that Summit should have a medal. Another reason I’d prefer the Summit to be the only award with a medal is because we already have Ranger, Quest, and TRUST with medals. These awards are the “expert-level” awards. In my view, Summit is going to be akin to being an expert in the Venturing program. I do prefer the medals that have a metal design suspended from a ribbon. Without the ribbon it looks much less formal and considering the Ranger, Quest, and TRUST awards are all metal designs suspended from a ribbon, it would be great to have them looking similar.

    Knot:
    Only the Summit award should have a knot. I saw in previous comments that some suggested that the knot should only be worn after the age of 21. As a Venturer who also serves as an adult in the other programs, I do not like this idea. Knots should be worn as long as you are an adult in any program. Having the break-point at 18 is very agreeable. That means if an 18 yr old Summit Awardee was also serving as an ASM, he or she could wear their Summit knot on the ASM uniform, which further promotes the Venturing program! As far as design, What about a green knot with a silver border on a white background? It’d be cool if the background wasn’t tan and actually matched the Venturing uniform.

    I had way too much time on my hands and doodled these out in Paint. Pardon my bad drawing and inability to turn some things silver like I wanted… Below is a link.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5y9txFRTUrXLW5kUURpaVhrcUE/edit?usp=sharing

    • Kelsey;
      I rather like the ideas you’ve put forth. I think a completely new knot would show a tremendous amount of respect to those who did put the effort in to earn the Silver also!

  96. I think there have been a number of good ideas for the new award. I’ve updated my patch designs to include some of the ideas.
    http://www.sageventure.com/venturing/VenturingAwardsDesigns.html
    Hopefully, BSA reads all these postings and uses some of the ideas to create the new patches.
    By the way, without question, there should also be a medal for Summiteers and a square knot. But I think that is already planned.
    Again, Venturing rank patches for the Venturing uniform and Boy Scout rank patches for the Boy Scout uniform. AOL and Eagle square knots for the Venturing uniform for all ages. Wear the Eagle Scout patch as an option for the Venturing uniform if the boys is not working on Venturing awards or just wants to wear the Eagle patch. Other Boy Scout rank patches should not be considered. Of course, you would not wear an Eagle knot and and Eagle patch at the same time.

    • The Eagle is a Boy Scout rank and shouldn’t appear on a Venturing patch. Also, that eagle’s wings are super long. Also, they can’t use your designs or base their designs on your designs unless you sign away your copyright to the BSA.. Even then, because you weren’t a National employee when you created those designs, it’s not a “work for hire” and you could later file and pull the copyright back to yourself, no matter what you all agreed was a fair deal now, and National probably doesn’t want to pay you a royalty for every patch created. The best thing you can do in this situation is to not create patch ideas for National, because you’re just going to create future problems down the road if they want to use an idea like the one you submitted. If I was National, I’d ignore all comments on anything like this, just so I could legally say that I had never seen your designs, which probably means no National isn’t reading these comments and it’s kind of pointless to even have this discussion in the first place.

      • Obviously, I did not make something clear. You are right, the Eagle is a Boys Scout rank and should not appear on a Venturing patch. The Eagle I used was from an Explorer patch and was used for the Venturing Silver award.
        BSA does not worry about copyrights because they used my VOA (http://www.sageventure.com/clipart/) design and my designs for the 2010 Boy Scout and Cub Scout rank patches (http://www.sageventure.com/2010/2010_Ranks.pdf). I did not even get a thank you.
        Bart, you are wrong, BSA should use the collections of ideas to create the new Venturing patches. It is the collection of ideas that makes thing better.

        • Yes Craig this is exactly what we need. I really like your disigns. I hope that they something like what you have shown. Let’s hoipe that the Summit award is like the current Silver Award.

      • Bart, I have to agree with Craig here. All bets are off in an open design mill such as this. If it seems to suit everyone’s fancy it will get used in spite of any preconceived boundaries. Unfortunately that also means that the original designer get’s no recognition except personal bragging rights to anyone who will believe his/her story.

        One of the challenges I’ve found in promoting the venturing program is that until I tell a parent, they have no way of knowing it’s connected with the BSA. The current logo just doesn’t help make the connection to any other symbol of scouting. So, the 1st class pin on top of the logo is what first impressed me when I saw the medals.

        I have boy scouts who never appreciated the complexity of the bronze, gold, and silver awards. If they saw elements of their ranks reflected in the awards, I think they’d “get it” without muddying the waters at all. But that’s just me. It’s really great to get on this forum and hear what others are thinking.

    • I don’t think Eagle is right, but how about another animal. Wolf?

      I do agree that what I am seeing in the OP really doesn’t look ‘better’ than the Eagle award. If the intent is to make the Summit award the top award in Scouting, then it needs to be made to look like it.

    • Michael O'Donnell // May 26, 2014 at 9:22 pm // Reply

      A Venturer should not have to chose which award he wears. If he wants to wear his Life Scout and his Pathfinder, he should be able to do that. We need to foster relations between the two programs, not find ways to make youth chose between the two.

      • I have been involved with international scouting for decades and no country to be the best of my knowledge has the equivalent of Venturers wearing Boy Scout rank patches on their uniform unless it is recognition for the top award as we do in Boys Scouts for AOL.
        What we need to do is promote Venturing as a program that is more likely to keep boys involved in scouting not that they did not achieve Eagle (by wearing a Star or Life patch).
        To be honest, you need to focus on Venturing, not just the Boy Scout program. Girls in Venturing do not have ranks to wear on their Venturing uniform and they are just important.

      • Amen, MIchael. Well said.

    • Craig;

      Two comments. “Summiteer” sounds too much like “Mouseketeer” it has drawn nothing but evil stares from the youth whom I suggested the term to. I’d suggest we 86 that term now as the youth I am speaking to find it degrading.

      Ditching BSA rank would be problematic for many crews, especially the LDS community who have male youth completing advancement. My crew is not LDS, but in the last 3 years have put up 3 Eagles. (Hopefully a 4th soon.) For those using the BSA advancement system we need to allow the youth to wear the rank.

      • Rob,

        That is interesting as Mouseketeer was my generation, not theirs. When I read Rachel’s proposal, I though of mountaineer. I have a feeling you applied your bias to the discussion. :-)
        Most LDS will have earned their Eagle by the Varsity program so I do not think that is a factor. However, I am just suggesting ideas. I honestly feel it is the collection of ideas that will generate the best set of rules so to speak so I hope BSA reads through all the ideas. The one thing I strongly feel is that their patch ideas leave much to be desired.

        • Craig;

          In regards to bias, You are mistaken sir. It was one of my Crew’s youth officers who actually made the “Mouseketeer” comment. Even though the Mickey Mouse Club may be from times past, most of today’s youth know that term today… However, having dropped the term extensively over the weekend, nobody took a positive view of it.

          For what it’s worth, I spent the greater percentage of my weekend at the Baden Powell History of Scouting Trail inaugural event in Washington, DC this weekend, and saw literally dozens of Venturers from my council, as well as neighboring ones. As time warranted, I asked several Venturers what they thought of the awards. Those who hadn’t seen them, I showed on my smartphone. I would say about 80% did not like any of the shown options, and about half of those liked the old award designs. (Of the remaining 20%, who did like the awards, they were mixed mostly with the medals and option C being the options people were gravitating towards.)

          I will say that many hadn’t seen this blog, and were upset that they didn’t know about it. Perhaps since National is needing to get this right the first time, a national poll could be done with a reasonable response window. BSA can email members, they do already with VoS. That would ensure fairness for everyone to give feedback, instead of rushing over a holiday weekend when people are away to collect data.

    • Venturing Steve // May 27, 2014 at 9:45 am // Reply

      Would it be possible to add the “Lead the Adventure” motto to the Pathfinder award?

      • Steve,

        Words on the patches is definitely worth considering. Again, I think of my suggestions as only one set of the collection of ideas. I just hope that the committee takes all these comments into consideration because the current proposed designs leave a lot to be desired. Hopefully the committee is made up of Venturers and Venturing leaders with experience.and not too many Boy Scout leaders. I’ll volunteer as I as an Advisor for 18 years and a Scoutmaster for 10 years and a Kodiak course director for 6 years (My good friend Joe Garrett and I lead whitewater rafting week long Kodiak courses).

  97. I hope this open ended question to venturers will help produce useful feedback: how important is it to you to have some symbols that traditionally boy-scouts have used with their rank insignia? Do you think in addition to the venturing logo, there should be:
    - Fleur-De-Li
    - Eagle with Shield (as in the pictures of the medals)
    - Star(s)
    - Heart
    - “Be Prepared” ribbon?

  98. Something tells me the patches will be a pain in the rear to sew onto a uniform, what with the spikes and everything. Additionally, the segmented design in general is a little off-putting since it’s always going to look incomplete until the Summit Award is earned, which can be funky, and unless you swap all the patches for new ones every time an award is earned they’ll be various degrees of messy, wilted and such. It’s simply not practical. A more traditional method, such as a standalone patch for every rank (like what every other program uses) would be far more appropriate.

    Needless to say, I’m not a fan of the proposed designs.

    • Right on Rene. I totally agree. Who ever came up with the suggested designs is not too imaginative and are not thinking about sewing. Round or oval patches work far better when sewing.

  99. A. You don’t need a medal for each award level. If you’re going to have multiple awards, you should follow the current Venturing practice and have one for the top-end achievement in each category, then one for the overall achievement. One for every level is frankly overkill.

    B. The medals are blah, bland, mundane. The Eagle Scout medal is a giant fricken silver eagle suspended from a red, white, and blue ribbon under a giant scroll with a motto. It’s super impressive looking. These are… well, they aren’t embarrassing, but there’s also no coolness value.

    C. Again, what’s up with the carpentry framing square? Yeah, I couldn’t join the Order of the Arrow so I went off and joined that other fraternal organization which teaches good things, the Freemasons. If you want to use something that evokes them, then that’s just great but if you didn’t mean to evoke that group, drop something that represents a building device.

    • Rule #65. If you’re going to be a curmudgeon, don’t repeat yourself. ;)

      You say carpenter’s square, I say stylized smile! Meet Thonna, your guide on the summit trail …

      https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1nNNe0TmjSfTBVya6369SZx03C8F_K484xIJOQ6bGV5A/edit?usp=sharing

      (Kids, please don’t hurt me. Bart made me do it!)

      • OK… That was just disturbing!!!

  100. My Venturers are active in advancing, but for most of them you wouldn’t know it because they don’t wear the medals on their uniform because they are to bulky/impractical. They are more for ceremonial use. Some of them wear the ribbon bars, which might be another option to explore, but a medal for every level is too much. A medal for the first Venturing Award would especially be too much. That level is considerably easier than the other 3 and getting a medal for that would lessen the achievement. Here is my suggestion for patches similar to the other program’s awards: http://www.wente.org/venturingAwds.gif

  101. Advisor from Massachusetts // May 27, 2014 at 8:49 am // Reply

    Please no multi-piece patch. A separate patch for each rank would be much better and provide more of a sense of accomplishment than getting a portion that doesn’t really stand on its own. In addition, sewing skills of venture scouts are varied and I can imagine how some of these multiple piece patches would look when they are finally assembled at the Summit level. Bad, bad, idea.

    As for medals, let’s mimic the Boy Scouts and just have it for the Summit award. Since this is the highest level, it should be recognized with a patch, medal, and knot.

  102. Venturing Steve // May 27, 2014 at 9:40 am // Reply

    I think that a unique patch for each rank is needed. Having a patch that you have to build is popular with our Crew. However having a single piece on the uniform until you earn the next will look silly and be a nightmare to sew on since you would not know what size the other patches are in order to space the first patch correctly. Also current Venturers could never have a complete patch because they couldn’t earn the Venturing patch.

    Our Crew recommends awards like Craig Murray has suggested. Also one prestigious Summit Award medal is necessary for “Leading the Adventure” to completion. With having 4 largely similar medals there is not a “WOW factor” with them. Current Venturers that have earned Silver, Gold, Bronze, Ranger, Quest, Trust, Kodiak, Powderhorn, or VLA awards and then earn the 4 new awards would have a shirt that weighs 50 pounds.

  103. Having read all of the comments above and having talked to those at the Venturing Booth at NAM, I am in favor of a single patch or pin (not medal) for the first three and a bar, ribbon, pendant medal and square knot for the Summit Award. I am not for the powder horn type of hanging award (since every powder horn I have has broken or I have lost it as it slips off). I prefer all of the patches or pins to be round or oval and easily distinguishable for the three awards (not segments) and the Summit to be a medal like the Eagle or current Silver. In fact why not use the current Silver award slightly modified as the Summit award and use the same square knot as silver.

    Craig Murray’s design for the medal is particularly good.

  104. Medals, definitely medals.

    Cub Scouts have belt loops
    Boy Scouts have patches
    Venturing should have medals

  105. I agree with everyone on the Summit Medal. Make it a ribbon-based award like Trust, Ranger, Quest, Eagle, etc.

    But, for the ranks themselves, how would people feel about something that could be pinned on instead of patches? One of the benefits to a “pin-able” system would be that a crew could very easily have a “change-over” ceremony of sorts to promote members to the next rank which could really get excitement up about the program. Perhaps one way might be collar-bugs, but we could look at epaulet pins also or maybe other places on the uniform. (Personally, I like collar bugs, but I’m thinking more of the concept than the placement at the moment.)

    Incorporating everyone’s ideas from this forum might make a pin system look like this: A gold “Stylized V” for Venturing, a gold compass rose for the Discovery, a gold torch for Pathfinder, and a silver Venturing Logo for the Summit. (Along with the medal for formal occasions.)

    A system like this would alleviate the sewing concerns entirely. Keep the pocket open for those crews who work on Scout ranks as well, and be easy for Venturers to wear their new rank right away which really would enhance people’s excitement of the program.

    What does everyone think?

    • Hi All;

      Not sure if this link will work, but I made an image of what these pins might look like. I didn’t take on the Summit medal, I think there are already a couple good ideas here that would work. But for the pins, these could be collar or epaulet pins or could be pinned elsewhere. I thought of the collars or epaulets to be mindful of the feedback about getting jabbed by the backs of the pins.

      https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_EBkGE9UCvnREFoZWtieTNBRHM/edit?usp=sharing

      • I like the pins. I bet whatever system is used, there will be a demand for them.

        I’m not entirely sold on the Pathfinder “torch”. The better metaphor would be an oil lamp. The ancients used to hang one from rope or chain as they carried it to light the ground before them. Thus the proverb “Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.”

        But then again, I’m from the days when troop’s used a patch with a lamp for their leadership corps (instead of venture patrols).

        • I do indeed remember those days. I still argue that we should revert our Venture patrols back to being called “Leadership Corps.” People always mess those two terms up… Rather frustrating… But I digress…

  106. Here are some of my adaptations to the prototypes. I’m certainly a fan of the following ideas:

    1. Patches for rank versus medals are good for every day wear.
    2. Medal for Summit only. (My example below is to illustrate the ribbon and top. I don’t have any preference with the BSA logo on the medal.)
    3. Yes to a knot.
    4. Allow Eagle scouts to maintain a representation of their BSA rank (similar to Arrow of Light on BSA uniforms).
    5. Normal borders to patches – no compass points extending beyond the border.

    You can see my ideas here:
    http://www.cbscouting.com/VenturingRankIdeas.pdf

    • Chris Soundis // May 27, 2014 at 4:34 pm // Reply

      Not going to lie, this is probably the best rank patch proposal I have seen so far. The only thing about the medal and knot, is the overuse of the Venturing colors. I personally like your suggestion for the first page of the pdf you linked, but the second page is a little tacky and lacks the showiness it seems people are looking for.

    • I agree, I think you have some good designs except for the Summit medal (looks too much like the Bronze medal).
      There have been a good number of idea so I hope the committee takes these all into account and troughs out the original proposed designs.

      • I really don’t care too much for my medal either as it is quite plain. Consider it simply my vote to have a Summit medal and no other. Same for the knot although using the colors would make it simple to know what it is. But the use of a patch in the shape of an Eagle from the Eagle medal (or something similar to it) for wear by Eagle Scouts should be considered.

  107. scoutdaddygene // May 27, 2014 at 3:56 pm // Reply

    Patch Option B

  108. I think there should be rank patches and lapel pins for the new ranks with a medal and square knot for the Summit. We have the same for Boy Scouts and Sea Scouts (minus the lapel pin for lower ranks in SS) https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=850927828255120&set=p.850927828255120&type=1&theater
    John

  109. I am not trying to be sexist here but it would be nice if we keep in mind that the awards need to be worn by both young ladies as well as young men. I have had quite a few negative comments from our ladies about wearing patches and medals on pockets and how they can be quite un-flattering and focus attention where it is not wanted.

    I also agree that a intricate boarder can also make the award itself look un-attractive after a short period of time. In designing a lot of patches at our local council and for other councils I try to advise against these. Even though they look cool when they are flat it is hard to maintain that flatness and crisp edges after normal wear and a few washing’s.

  110. I’ve drafted a design for the medallion of the Summit award. The idea came from others but I like it because of the continuity from the Silver to the Summit award. You can see my updated posting here – http://www.sageventure.com/venturing/VenturingAwardsDesigns.html

    I repeat, I consider the collection of ideas that will create the best new award. Mine are only idea for other the think about.

    • I like it.

    • It does have a lot of common DNA with the silver, but that is likely intentional…

    • Damon R. Allen // May 28, 2014 at 3:00 pm // Reply

      I love your proposed Summit Award Design!!

  111. Paul Muehlebach // May 27, 2014 at 4:37 pm // Reply

    Does it really matter? The BSA has been trying to figure out what might appeal to older Scouts since 1935. They change the program about every ten years because the one that was supposed to work didn’t after all.

    • You could not be more correct. Sad but true. Like I said, there have been 6 award name changes since 1944 (and maybe more since 1935). It really appears that senior scout has ever been BSA’s focus. Too many feel that Boy Scout up to 18 is the answer. I do not agree as I have done international scouting and few other countries keep their senior scouts with younger scouts.

  112. vuong tran // May 27, 2014 at 4:39 pm // Reply

    I prefer the medals.

  113. Medals are nice, but could easily lose their value if they are given for every rank/award. I would definitely want a Summit Medal. This could be either pinned onto the pocket flap with a ribbon like the Eagle Scout Medal, or it can be worn from the neck (like Sports Medals). Female crew members would probably prefer the latter.

    Patches would be great for all of them, but I would want to be able to wear the entry levels normally. Wearing just half the Venturing Logo just looks weird. I would also want a medal (whichever way stated above works) for the Summit Award in addition to a patch. However, I’m not sure where you would place the patches if you also want to keep your Boy Scout Patches (especially the Eagle Scout Patch).

    I also do like the idea of pins, especially since they negate the sewing problem. However, pins are small and hard to notice sometimes, and I’ve noticed that a few of my pins tended to break and fall out when I wasn’t paying attention.

  114. Michael Lobo // May 27, 2014 at 6:49 pm // Reply

    Sewing a patch of that nature on to the current Venturing uniform looks like it would be a tough task they way they pockets are designed…. Speaking with my Crew about it, we felt the medals keep with the tradition the Venturing award system. I assume only the highest medal earned would be worn in the case of the medals…
    Now the patch could make for a cool back patch or backpack patch for members of high adventure crews to sew on their packs.

  115. Rich Moore // May 27, 2014 at 7:51 pm // Reply

    “Leave your feedback on these Venturing award prototypes”

    I’d like an Official response from BSA. Are these our only options?

    Also, If we, as stakeholders in the Venturing program (Venturers and Venturing ddult volunteers) would like to submit ideas on design concepts of the award to whom and how can we submit our ideas?

  116. Love reading all the great feedback. So far a big fan of the patch idea for the ranks and a medal, patch and knot for the Summit award. Craig’s drafts are definitely onto something. Big thing to consider is to keep the size down so it is not so large like an activity patch. Try to keep size to no larger than BSA rank patches in height and perhaps circular or square in fashion to make different. Perhaps for easier changing on uniforms consider something along like full velcro attachment on the back and placed on the sleeve/shoulder (which the ladies would certainly appreciate). The initial sew on velcro backer would come with the first rank, Venturing Award. Optional for those that have their own uniforms is to sew the patch on their polos in a location determined by their Crew. However we have to first cross our fingers that the new requirements work and Venturers will be interested in moving up in ranks. Perhaps with the new “Venturing” intro rank, this might give the youth a step into that direction.

    I definitely agree that the Summit Award if possible should have some features that hail back to the previous awards like the Silver award and other recognized awards from Sr. Scouting that have a similar stature in presentation as the Eagle Scout Award. We need to start embracing some of the heritage that created the program (even if it wasn’t successful) instead of casting it away. The Summit Award warrants a ceremonial medal that is presented and hangs (like the Eagle Award) and a Summit badge for youth to wear in place of the ceremonial medal for field activity and a knot (for adults) to wear.

    Terry D
    Crew61.org

  117. Jeremy Felty // May 27, 2014 at 8:36 pm // Reply

    I personally like Option C

  118. I like patch design A. as to medals their fine, but I like how the patch easily shows where you’re at in the program

  119. Adding one more concept to the mix. (Those of you who are more artistically inclined, please make improvements if this inspires you.) How about medals that clip/stack onto one another? That keeps them compact and leaves room for other awards on the pocket. Here’s a link to a schematic for the ribbons …
    https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1aubdRESqDKS5zhd8CY-M_N7940QFHLLTEC7Lc9dCdLU/edit?usp=sharing

    • Cheryl Bugner // May 28, 2014 at 6:35 am // Reply

      This is a cool idea! — patches could just look like they are stacked without actually being multi-layers — accomplishes recognition of the previous levels in each higher achievement..

  120. Patch A, because the Summit award is included. However, all are fine.

  121. I think the metals look classy. The patches that go together and make one i have never liked because although, all the awards do lead up to one big award, having a separate patch for each achievement feels much more rewarding. Having a patch to always be on your uniform and a metal for special occasions I think would look very nice.

  122. Medals look good. The progressive patch is cool too. My thought is the compass point background of the patch should incorporate a style-ized fleur de lis as silhouette..

  123. The patch concepts are good… but, flawed. The Venturing logo should be the “first” award. Then each of the four sides could add compass points as they are earned. Would require only two patches (1/4 compass point patch, and the logo patch).

    With medals also available (just like Boy Scout Advancements) for “dress” wear.

  124. Randy Turnquist // May 28, 2014 at 2:29 pm // Reply

    Medals are nice for certain things/occasions. They are dangely, and are “off” the garment, leaving room to snag on other things. My vote is to have them as an “Optional” award, but my first choice is Oval Patch B. the points on the other patches look great, but I find them problematic when trying to stitch them on, and when using patch glue, I suspect those points would look dog-eared and ratty, rather quickly, but Wow, the design is really sharp looking.

  125. There have been so many good and helpful ideas that I believe this blog will influence the decision makers.

    I find it interesting that most scouters select silver as the color for the Summit award even though many have said that gold should be higher than silver. Of course we know it is a long term tradition in scouting to use silver to represent the highest as is done in the military. For those interested, I wrote a web page on this subject a good number of years ago called “Silver Outranks Gold” – http://www.sageventure.com/history/silver/ . (If any links do not work, please let me know.)

    The one item that I strongly favor is continuing to using the Explorer/Venturing Eagle on the Summit award. For several reasons: it shows continuity between the Venturing Silver and the Summit awards; an Eagle can truly summit; and the Eagle has always been part of our scouting program.

    • Wholeheartedly agree silver is reserved for the top achievement in BSA. Anybody who uses anything but should be demoted to the Journey to Excellence task force. ;)
      As far as eagles summit-ting, that’s altitude dependent. I think max is ~11K (although one was found dead at twice that height in the Himalayas). If you want a bird that could settle on most of the popular peaks in the Rockies, best depict a vulture!
      But, I digress. A flying Eagle should definitely be on venturing’s highest award.
      Note that the schematics I posted earlier were only of the ribbons. I didn’t have the time nor patience to draw in medals that might hang from them.

    • Steven Myers // May 28, 2014 at 5:45 pm // Reply

      “The one item that I strongly favor is continuing to using the Explorer/Venturing Eagle on the Summit award.” I am in total agreement with this.

  126. I like the progressive patch, but make it easy to sew (I am fundamentally opposed to using badge magic when sewing is such a useful skill), so the compass points as a separate part of the patch are tough. Make the first patch the full Venturing diamond logo, and have a separate medal in addition to a patch for the Summit Award. Base it on design B so the compass points can be a part of the oval, and easier to sew.

  127. Hard to sew a medal on a blanket…?

  128. Rich Moore // May 28, 2014 at 4:59 pm // Reply

    Does anyone have an Email address to “Officially” submit ideas for designs concepts for the Venturing Awards?

    • Wendy Kurten // May 30, 2014 at 10:46 am // Reply

      Rich,

      you can send your suggestions to program.content@scouting.org

  129. Kevin Majka // May 28, 2014 at 5:47 pm // Reply

    I’m a Venturing Silver Award holder.

    I would like to see the new Summit award to keep the Venturing Silver award medal look – modified to include – Summit instead of Silver Award. Keep the ribbon, keep the look. It continues the strength of a Venturing Award and keeps the lineage. I think it’s the BSA’s best medal design besides the Quartermaster – and I’m an Eagle Scout that. (Craig Murray’s Medal suggestion).

    I would ditch medals for the lower three levels. I would do either oval, or rounded square patches. I would also put the award name on the patch. Nobody ever knew what my bronze awards were unless they were in venturing. Let’s get the lingo of the awards out with the award names.

    Anyways here’s a mockup that I put together using other ideas, and some patch designs of Craig Murray’s. I REPEAT and fully give credit to Craig’s work, I just manipulated them.I totally used Craig’s past ideas and incorporated them and recolored them. I think that the names for Discovery, Pathfinder, and Summit should be on the patch.

    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-QngmrY2g5mo/U4ZlOr-GO9I/AAAAAAAAaXo/zL8iaD0Nd3c/w555-h590-no/allawards.png

    Just my 2 cents. And can someone please pass news on the discontinuation of the Ranger, Trust, and Quest Awards – anyone have a link?

    • I really like those patch designs

      • Kevin- the Ranger, TRUST, and Quest Awards are NOT being discontinued! Whoever says otherwise is mistaken. All the info from National on the new program have clearly stated they are staying. Obviously there will need to be some requirements changes to account for the required Bronzes going away, but they remain.

    • THESE are my favorite. Great job Kevin! I really hope that these are seriously considered.

    • Bob Becker // May 28, 2014 at 10:04 pm // Reply

      I have to agree -these are my favorite. Also conceived by a Silver Award winner!

    • Damon R. Allen // May 29, 2014 at 6:44 am // Reply

      Nice!! I admire your designs for the new awards!!

    • Kevin,
      Good designs especially since you used some of my concepts. :-) The only design I do not favor is for Pathfinder. I believe that symbols are better than people so that is the only one I would suggest be modified.
      YIV

      • Kevin Majka // May 29, 2014 at 5:46 pm // Reply

        Yeah, I think the symbol for pathfinder’s is tough. Compass for discovery works. I chose the hikers because they seem gendered without being “that’s a guy and that’s a girl”. Our ladies get no representation usually. A map could work for that one as well. (I’m a sociology major)

        When I think of torches I think of the OA. I think something with hiking boots, or a map, or something could be used as well.

        • Kevin,
          I contacted BSA earlier this month (or maybe last month) and I was told the focus on each of the awards was:
          Summit – Mentoring
          Pathfinder – Leadership
          Discovery – Participation
          Venturing – Joining
          That is why I chose the torch for Pathfinder as it represents leadership. Maybe you can this can help your thinking.
          The difficult one for me was Summit as I was told the Eagle was overused but I do not agree. The Eagle represents the continuum of the senior scouting program. I am glad many others seem to see it that way and I do not feel I have tried to direct their thoughts. (My Summit drawing on this blog was not what I sent to BSA.)
          I really like the chevron at the bottom of each of your award drawings. It really ties together the awards.

        • Kevin Majka // May 29, 2014 at 7:27 pm //

          Here’s one with the torch instead of the hikers. Updated Pathfinders only. https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Qw7-1M8pwLg/U4fPrZKYoMI/AAAAAAAAafI/hQntojh3II8/w752-h800-no/allawards-withtorch.png

        • How about a meandering trail toward the summit for Pathfinder?

        • Kevin,
          I posted the new link on http://www.sageventure.com/venturing/VenturingAwardsDesigns.html. If you choose to post both designs, email me your image address of the other. I will figure things out!

        • Kevin Majka // May 29, 2014 at 7:57 pm //

          And here’s one with rectangle patches for the Venturing, Discovery, and Pathfinder. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mGKb5rh9hNs/U4fXHN3MA6I/AAAAAAAAaf0/SJFQxunJ_Zg/w752-h800-no/allawards-rectangles.png

          At this point I’m done – I have school work to do. This is certainly fun.

        • I definitely like the diamonds far far better. Post are posted on my web page showing both.

        • Kevin Majka // May 29, 2014 at 9:15 pm //

          Thanks Craig,
          I agree about the diamond shape. While I get the Cub Scout comparison, I think just doing a bigger patch (they are bigger pockets), could work well for that shape.

          I like the camp school “sized” one, but I like having the rank/award name on it to boost the awards program.

        • Rich Moore // May 29, 2014 at 10:32 pm //

          Hey Craig,
          How would any of these designs look on a Yellow Bordered w/ Green Background Leadership Corps shaped patch?

        • I leave these relatively minor adjustment up to the committee. I just do not want the original designs that were posted at the beginning of this blog. The showed no thought.

    • A most excellent design proposal. My only change would be to put the venturing logo on the background of the medal like on the patch.

    • Kevin- the Ranger, TRUST, and Quest Awards are NOT being discontinued! Whoever says otherwise is mistaken. All the info from National on the new program have clearly stated they are staying. Obviously there will need to be some requirements changes to account for the required Bronzes going away, but they remain.

  130. I’ve been asked to list all the proposals in one place so I have done that.
    The web address is http://www.sageventure.com/venturing/VenturingAwardsDesigns.html.
    I hope this helps.

    • Thanks Craig. These designs are getting better and better. So far, Kevin Majka’s designs are my favorite.

      • I agree, he’s designs are the best that i’ve seen so far.

    • Thanks, Craig. Although there are better ways to crowd source this sort of thing, this really feels about as around-the-drawing board as one can get.
      BTW If you want a real name by my design. It’s Charles George. Not sure that it matters, we’re all just building off of everyone’s brainstorm. And thanks everyone for being gracious and positive about the ideas.

    • Damon R. Allen // May 30, 2014 at 5:15 am // Reply

      Kevin,
      In my opinion, your designs are the best! They are creative and bridge the gap between the current awards and the new ones. By using the hues of the old awards in your designs, well, it is just brilliant!
      You have my vote buddy!

  131. An New Eagle Scout // May 28, 2014 at 6:40 pm // Reply

    I believe patch designs are a better choice than all metal awards, because patches are sewn on and stay through washing of clothing. The metal awards must be detached and could be “misplaced” when not on the shirt.

    The patch design “A” would be difficult to sew onto a shirt and have the spacing correct, therefore I would eliminate it. I like the design for B and C, which are similar; the minor difference being a smooth edge or edge with compass points sticking out. The smooth edge of patch “B” is easier to sew, while the compass points of patch “C” may curl over time (i.e. with washing). Therefore, I would vote for design B.

    I agree that the final award should be metal. A flying eagle sends a message that it is equivalent to the BSA Eagle Award. Finally, there should be a patch that can be worn, like the Eagle patch, for outdoor activities whereas the Metal Award is reserved for ceremonies.

  132. I like the medals over the patches. It helps set Venturing apart from Boy Scouts.

  133. Combination of the medals for more formal occasions and patches for every day. However, I don’t like the idea of splitting the Venturing emblem. Start with the Venturing emblem then add to it as the awards earned.

  134. Po Lovett // May 28, 2014 at 9:32 pm // Reply

    I definitely think if it’s going to be an award (especially the summit award), then it should be a medal that pins on like the silver, eagle and quartermaster awards. It adds to the significance and look of the award and will be taken more seriously. Young boy scouts that look up to venturers as role models will see a pin on medals and take them more seriously then if it looped on like the powder horn medal. I just don’t see it being a step forward.

    YIV
    Po Lovett
    2011 Eagle Scout
    2011 Vigil Honor
    2013 Silver Award
    2013 VLA

  135. Love Kevin Majka’s medal designs!

    • Kevin Majka // May 29, 2014 at 1:43 pm // Reply

      Those were really meant as patches.

    • Kevin Majka // May 29, 2014 at 2:01 pm // Reply

      I do appreciate the feedback – sorry if that was short. Hit enter for a paragraph and it became a post.

  136. Matt Messenger // May 28, 2014 at 10:39 pm // Reply

    As excited as I am for the revamped venturing program, I can’t endorse any of these potential designs. I disagree with splitting the venturing logo as most of these seem to do. It seems to send the message that some youth are only half a member.

  137. Kevin Majka // May 28, 2014 at 10:48 pm // Reply

    I just want to say a quick reply to those that liked or saw what I posted. I saw the original patch years ago and thought to myself today – possibly a decade or less later – that’s a nice design. I like the idea of keeping bronze, gold, and silver in there – even as accent color instead as a tie to the previous Venturing and vintage Exploring programs. I think these could be reworked to a regular square, or camp school patch design – and even be recolored as well.

    I think the key for these award/medal patches to inspire is to do something “fresh” and “modern” at the same time, while retaining some “history” to the original Venturing Awards, and if possible the original Exploring Silver Awards path. I know a few original Silver Award guys. They have great stories. They were so happy that I earned the Venturing Silver Award back in 2002.

    Additionally, I like the Sea Scout way of doing same size more basic patches and making the Quartermaster a full color “bigger” patch as well.

    While I understand people like medals… I didn’t like them.
    I found them to be distracting, and gaudy at times during courts of honors. I think less is more. Keeping it to top level makes the top one even more important. I also thought the Venturing Gold medal was poorly made, and the bronze medal was too vanilla. The ribbons were cool, but I think patches help Boy Scouts and leaders get the program a bit more. I remember old timers saying, they all look like little generals (especially males with knots, and ribbons, or knots and medals during a ceremony).

    I think loop medals that hang are asking to get messed up, washed, or lost. Also I know a few Powderhorn trained female leaders that don’t enjoy extra attention to their chest area. A looped patch could work I guess too.

    Here’s Craig’s patch that I tweaked. He’s been designing awesome patches since Exploring! http://www.sageventure.com/store/designs/Rendezvous.html

    Is there any update or are the Trust, Quest, and Ranger awards being discontinued?

    • Stop being modest, Kevin. I think your design captures a lot of what we’ve been suggesting. And I like your approach. Maybe tomorrow someone will one-up you, but for now you’ve set the bar.

      Trust, Quest and Ranger are continuing.

    • Damon R. Allen // May 29, 2014 at 7:00 am // Reply

      Well said Kevin. You bring up good points that I tried to address in my feedback. Your designs are very cool and unique. From my understanding, the TRUST, Quest, and Ranger are being kept. I do not know about the updates to the requirements though.

    • If Ranger is retired then Venturers will have no path to follow for the William T. Hornaday award. So, I hope they will not be retired, at least without a valid replacement.

      • Ranger, Quest, and TRUST will all be continued. The only awards being discontinued in the program are Bronze, Gold, and Silver. This is FACT.

  138. Rob Hanes, French Creek Council // May 28, 2014 at 10:55 pm // Reply

    Keep the silver award design and modify it for Summit Award. Make the Venturing, Discovery, and Pathfinder Awards as separate badges (similar to BSA ranks) not a piece together badge.

  139. I know someone worked hard to come up with these suggestions, but I think there are some better ideas out there.
    1) Summit: This should be a medal. Richard Moore’s representation was really great. I like the compass and the fact that it is similar to the current Silver Award. I wish it had some “red, white, and blue” in it, like the one that Kevin Majka did. So I think I would combine these 2: add the compass to Kevin’s image somehow.
    2) I really really do not like the idea of irregular edges on any patches. They look tacky after just a few washings, if not before (except for those who wear the uniform so little that it doesn’t matter). Whatever the image is, it needs to be on a round or oval background or diamond shaped (such as Kevin Majka’s) background.
    3) I am not fond of the suggested patch designs. I liked Craig Murray’s better. But I have to say one thing. Are these “awards” or “ranks”? I am really confused. If they are considered “ranks”, then John Green’s rank patches look good. But if they are awards, then John’s patches would not be impressive enough.
    4) I think it is obvious that “Venturing” would not be a medal, but I am not sure that medals should be ruled out for Pathfinder and Discovery. I haven’t soaked up yet the complexity of earning each of these, so it is hard to decide.
    5) The reaction to the new awards in my crew (especially from the girls) was that something similar to merit badges should have been added. We are missing all the “incremental” achievements. The hope that someday we could have some merit badge type patches makes me lean toward making the Pathfinder and Discovery awards be medals.

  140. I do not like the original patches shown above. Too complicated and very hard to sew on (don’t even talk about Badge magic).

    Why not have different versions of the Venturing Emblem (Diamond shape) with the final top award having the Venturing Eagle added. Also have a medal for the top award as well as a knot.

    Some of the designs from the field look far better than the ones presented at National.

    I will be very curious to see if National actually listens to the field on this, rather than quote some made up survey or numbers from unknown councils.

    I hope that this request for feedback is not just a ploy to say “we asked” (and then do what they want anyway). PLEASE PROVE THIS WRONG!

    • To be fair, this online “team” is not much larger than the one at NAM. But, if this is the sounding board they are choosing to use, it’s the best we got. And, it’s better than anything that was available 10 years ago!

      Regardless. I’m having fun.

    • Amen Ron!

  141. Jerry Johnson // May 29, 2014 at 12:02 am // Reply

    The medals seem too much like Cub belt loops to me. I think I prefer the idea of 3 separate patches or medals.

  142. Mackenzie Lardie // May 29, 2014 at 12:06 am // Reply

    I first want to say thank you for taking the comments of Venturers and Scouters in the matter of the Awards. As a Powder Horn recipient, I feel that the medals that would hang like a Powder Horn medal would be harder to attach to the newer uniform shirts. I am completely against the patches, it feels like they are too simplistic for the awards at hand. If the Summit award is to be considered comparable to Eagle and Quartermaster, then it should be a metal with a ribbon as well as a knot, just like the Silver Award. Being a female youth in Venturing there are not many knots to wear as there are for young men in Venturing. I loved having my Silver Award one on my uniform.

  143. The lower half patch looks like a cow’s udder. Bleah.

    • He said in udder distain. ;)

    • And what is wrong with cows, or parts thereof? :-)

  144. David Diamond // May 29, 2014 at 5:31 am // Reply

    The medals seem to be most popular in my crew. Nobody seemed to care for the piece-meal patches.

    • David Diamond // May 29, 2014 at 5:32 am // Reply

      Will there still be an award bar when the medal is not worn?

  145. I like entire (continuous, non-spiky) edges on patches, and believe that they do a better job for regular wear than medals. a medal should also be given with the Summit award, as it is the highest award and is therefore special.

    As far as design, I can’t do a mock up since I don’t have that sort of skill. I like Kevin Majka’s concepts best, but for the Summit patch I would omit the background Venturing image and simply use the eagle with the circle. Also, I do not like the hikers image for the Pathfinder, and would suggest that a flaming torch might be a better idea to communicate “finding the path”.

  146. Rich Moore // May 29, 2014 at 5:54 pm // Reply

    I biggest two cents worth on the the designs are:

    1. The Venturing Patch on the right sleeve is a waste of the patch and the patch location. Turn the Venturing Patch into the the Venturing Award.

    2. Use that patch location for the proposed Venturing ranks location. In doing so, stay with the same shape for all “ranks”. While I like and love everyone designs, The diamond shape to me will always for Cub Scouts. I think we could stay with Rank Sq patches, much like the 60′s era ranks, but with Venturing green background and yellow borders.

    3. Craig, I love all your designs. I’d love to see a design tweek on your Summit medallion design. Just wondering what a Explorer Type II Silver medal type round detailed Compass Rose would look added the your existing Summit medallion. Then remove the words “Summit Award” from medallion. Then add an existing Venturing Silver Award Ribbon/Drape and replace the words “VENTURING” with “SUMMIT” on the ribbon holder.

    4. As for Sea Scout earning Venturing Awards, make a Mini Version of the Venturing award as Black on White and/or White on Black so that a Sea Scout could wear into on the Collar,Sleeve, or cuffs of the Sea Scout uniforms.

  147. Nathan K. // May 29, 2014 at 7:31 pm // Reply

    First, I am not a fan of the new Venturing awards or advancement at all. I’ve earned the Ranger and Silver Award and did not find any of the requirements to be out of the realm of Venturers. That being said, I am not a fan of any of the designs. There should be patches for all the ranks and a medal for the Summit. THe Venturing logo should not be broken up into pieces. It looks tacky and disrespectful to the organization.

  148. Ken Bower // May 30, 2014 at 1:05 pm // Reply

    I’ve been seeking Venturers all week to review and comment on this. It’s a Holiday week, and the middle of finals for many teens, so it’s a poor time to seek their opinions, but I have collected some.

    First, (paraphrased) comments initiated by current Venturers (youth):
    – “I don’t want medals or dangly things that will snag or poke while I’m active; I prefer nice flat sewn-on patch”
    – “The large oval on option B is too large”
    – “I’m concerned about sewing all those complicated shapes in option A”
    – “Can’t we just have something like the Boy Scouts and Sea Scouts: a cloth emblem for each rank (including the highest), plus a fancy ribbon and knot for Summit?”
    – “Boys can wear their Eagles. Why can’t girl’s wear their [Girl Scout] Golds?”

    Next, youth responses to questions I presented them:
    – “The Venturing uniform pockets have a pleat in the center, and they’re made of stretchy material. Make any patch easy to sew on: no complicated shapes or multiple segments.”
    – “I don’t have a general objection to a button loop attachment, but I don’t want a post-pin or safety pin style attachment that goes on my breast pocket (ouch).”
    – “Provide an approved method for a current Boy Scout rank to be displayed on the Venturing uniform if the left pocket is occupied with a Venturing ‘rank’ emblem.” [perhaps a rank pin on the pocket flap?]

    Finally, my own recommendations:
    – Simple diamond Venturing logos with changing color schemes in each:
    — Venturing: all details in coppery brown thread
    — Discovery: change large V to yellow thread
    — Pathfinder: keep yellow V, change snow peak to white thread
    — Summit: replace yellow and white with with sparkly yellow and white
    – diamonds are of modest size, perhaps 2″ across (a bit under 1.5″ on edge)
    – bring back old Explorer Silver Award (1949-1964) ribbon design for formal wear
    – keep current Silver knot for Summit Award

    • “Boys can wear their Eagles. Why can’t girl’s wear their [Girl Scout] Golds?”

      Simple answer to this is that Venturing is under the BSA, Boy Scouting is under the BSA, and Girl Scouts is under the GSUSA (Girl Scouts of the USA). I’m hesitant to use the word “recognize”, but the basic answer is that the BSA doesn’t recognize awards outside the organization to be worn on the uniform. Please don’t bring up religious emblems, because those have paperwork, committees, and representatives that link them to the BSA. So technically they are still part of the BSA even though the requirements and awards are through the religious affiliation’s scouting committee.

      It’s a sad truth, but I have seen Girl Scout Gold recipients that wear a unofficial square knot to represent it. Unless GSUSA and BSA merge, or the BSA recognizes the GSUSA as a division of Scouting, the Girl Scout Gold can’t be worn. :/ Rules are rules, though I agree that they should be able to wear them.

      Let us please not continue this conversation on Girl Scout Gold, as this forum is no place for it. I simply left this comment to clarify a concern.

      • Rich Moore // May 30, 2014 at 11:25 pm // Reply

        Yes they can!!!
        Per BSA’s GUIDE TO AWARDS AND INSIGNIA, Under Special Regulations,
        Badges of Other Organizations

        The very last sentence states:
        “Female Venturers who have earned the Girl Scout Gold Award may wear the badge on their Venturing uniform shirt’s left pocket.”

        However, BSA never stated what kind of Girl Scout Gold Award “badge” to wear. The Official Girl Scout Gold Award is a tiny lil’ pin that can easily fall off. However, GSUSA also makes a Girl Scout Gold Award Emblem Patch, Item # 09907, for non-GSUSA uniform wear. It’s a sells for $2.50.

        I think this works better and can be sewn on the Venturing Pocket in the same position as the Eagle Scout Badge.

        http://www.girlscoutshop.com/core/media/media.nl?id=6889&c=317771&h=1ef33a42928bd3879a68

      • Thanks for correcting this misperception, Rich. Many of my crew work on their gold awards. We don’t bother with the green shirts, but I never mentioned to them that they could wear their gold award on a venturing uniform. Maybe when I tell them, it may be a game changer.

    • Kevin Majka // May 30, 2014 at 5:57 pm // Reply

      The Gold Award thing would drive me nuts if I was a female who earned it. That’s a tough award. The unofficial knot is nice but even the Gold Award pin on the pocket flap is cool and done often.

      • Anonymous // July 1, 2014 at 4:06 pm // Reply

        I always wear my little Gold Award pin on my Venturing uniform. If the boys wear their Eagles, I’m going to wear my Gold. And it is allowed, too, according to the insignia guide.

  149. I like the medals and patch design a equally.

  150. I see a potentially serious problem with segmented patches.

    As currently envisioned, current Venturers will be ineligible to receive the Venturing award. What this means is that should a current Venturer earn Discovery, Pathfinder and Summit they will have a hole in their patch.

    Did anyone notice this? There are only three corrective actions:

    1) Allow current Venturers to be awarded the Venturing award
    2) Design a segmented patch in which the absence of a Venturing award patch is not noticeable
    3) Use individual patches only

  151. Is the Summit award going to reuse the Silver square knot?

    • After posting this I came across proposals for a new square knot design. I have to state that I like these proposals very much.

  152. I must say that I finally looked over the earlier posts with links to proposals for medals and patches from our youth members, and all I can say is I am very impressed! These ideas need to be strongly considered.

  153. Sorry I entered this conversation later…but here’s my suggestions for what they are worth.

    The basic design for Boy Scouting’s ranks are ovals. Within that oval are the traditional representations of the rank. Since Venturing draws from much of its Exploring beginnings, I propose that we use a rank structure which would be easy to visualize and meaningful to those in and outside of Venturing.

    The basic rank of Venturer should be represented by a cloth emblem, two inches square, with a kelly green border and a fully embroidered Venturing logo emblem in the center of the kelly green background and worn centered on the left pocket. The Arrow of Light can be worn immediately under it by those who earned it as a Cub Scout; and the Eagle and Venturing rank could be worn side-by-side by Eagle Scouts (we’ll leave the order to the holder). The rank for the Discovery rank should be this same emblem, with a bronze mylar border and a bronze bar above the logo.
    The rank emblem for the Pathfinder rank would be this same emblem with a gold mylar border and gold bar; and the Summit rank emblem would feature the same emblem (or perhaps the medallion emblem…more on that in a moment) with a silver mylar border and silver bar atop the Venturing logo.

    The medallion would be presented in three manners, to make it distinguishable and wearable in all circumstances by the Summit holder: a medallion, similar in size to the BSA’s Order of the Arrow’s Founders’ Award; a wearable medallion, nor more than an inch and a half in diameter, worn on a ribbon with a green, gold and brown striped ribbon; and a silver lapel pin with the design of the medallion 1 inch in diameter. This presents several different manners that the award can be presented and along with the cloth patch (and the EXISTING SILVER AWARD SQUARE KNOT EMBLEM!!!), would be suitable recognition for a Summit Award holder.

    More importantly, he or she can wear the representation formally and informally. The square knot emblem, as with all youth rank square knot emblems, are worn only by those 21 and older, since the cloth rank could be worn by Venturers until they turn 21.

    One other minor suggestion: the Venturing rank emblems would be able to be worn centered on the left pocket of the various jackets and jac-shirts and in particular the green and red jac-shirts.

  154. Oops…hit that “post” button too early…

    The large medallion would be placed on a pedestal with the name of the Summit Award holder. Bars in green, bronze, gold and silver with the Venturing logo in the center would be available for informal wear and for Venturing units not using the traditional green field uniform.

    Okay. I’m done.

  155. JOHN O'BRIEN // June 4, 2014 at 1:00 am // Reply

    HAVING BEEN A SCOUT FOR FIFTY YEARS I AGREE ON THE PATCH DESIGN SIMILAR TO BOY SCOUTING. ANYTHING THAT COMES IN PARTS ARE TOO COMPLICATED TO SEW ON THE NEW FABRIC. RANK ADVANCEMENT WITH DISTINCT PATCHES THE RECIPIANT WOULD HAVE THE PREVIOUS PATCH TO ADD TO THEIR COLLECTION.

    THAT BRINGS UP MY OTHER GRIPE WHEN ARE WE GOING BACK TO THE OLD SHIRT FABRIC. IN THE SOUTHWEST THE SHIRTS DON’T BREATH AND STICK TO THE PERSON WEARING THEM. WE NEED THE SHIRT WITH THE COTTON POLY MATERIAL WHICH ALSO IS MORE FLAME RESISTANT. MINE HAS NUMEROUS HOLES ALREADY FROM SPARKS FROM A CAMPFIRE AND IT’S LESS THAN ONE YEAR OLD. I REFUSE TO WEAR IT IN THE SUMMER AND THAT IS NINE MONTHS OF THE YEAR HERE.

    MEDALS ARE ONLY TO BE WORN WHEN RECEIVED. MILITARY. AND ON DRESS UNIFORMS CLASS ‘A’. WEARING A MEDAL ON A SHIRT ON MOST SCOUTING OCCAISIONS ONLY LEADS TO LOSS OR DAMAGE. REPEATED PINNING OF MEDALS TEARS THE SHIRT AND LEADS TO PREMATURE FAILURE OF THE SHIRT. I THINK IF SCOUTING HAS AWARDS THAT ARE NOT SEQUENTIAL THEY SHOULD BE OFFERED WITH KNOTS. IF WE OFFER MEDALS AND THEY ARE TO BE WORN REPEATEDLY THEN OFFER SHITS WITH BUTTON HOLE REINFORCEMENT LIKE FIRE/POLICE/MILITARY WHERE THE BADGE GOES AND NAME PLATE. I PAID TO HAVE MY SHIRTS REINFORCED WHERE MY NAME TAG GOES TO PREVENT EARLY FAILURE. YEAH I’M ONE OF THOSE ONE HOUR A WEEK SCOUTERS.

  156. I prefer something other than complex patch shapes. I work with Sea Scouts, and they have enough trouble sewing on square or circular patches. Youth should be able to sew on their own patches (Badge Magic and Scout Shop contractors should not be needed for Venturers). I recommend a different patch for each rank. I prefer patches for the three lower ranks. Medals, in general, seem to me to should be reserved for the highest (i.e. Summit) award. I am generally turned off by the options I see.

    The medals do show a bit of a more viable option as patches, i.e.:
    Venturer – Single green color diamond shaped patch, ghost sewn.
    Discoverer – Add bright yellow V
    Pathfinder – Add bright white mountain snow
    Summit – Add silver or gold border around edges (patch). Have a medal for formal wear, same design, with closinné enamel, ribbon of white, green, & yellow.

    Historically, the Explorer Scout badges were a basic badge with three different symbols in the center for the three higher ranks. The Explorer Apprentice was a distinct badge, but the only distinction in Bronze, Gold and Silver was the color of the badge. Simplicity works. Some people were determined to do away with our history, but simplicity is still good.

  157. Patch A looks like a sewing nightmare! The fabric of the Venturing shirts is inherently more difficult to sew on than anything, especially on the pocket. Trying to sew all the cuts and angles of the patches over the course of months or years as the fabric ages, while also trying to keep adjacent patches looking like they belong together seems impossible. The other patch designs are only marginally better, but having to remove one patch to replace it with another (re-sewing over the same aging fabric) is a bad idea. The medals are not bad, but I agree with other posters that they are vulnerable to loss and that repeated pinning damages the fabric.

    I like the idea of something akin to the knots. They don’t have to be “knots,” per se, but about the same size/shape, sewn in a similar area (not on the pocket) as the knots, above or below the pocket.

    • Michael Grenier // June 5, 2014 at 10:46 am // Reply

      Good points! What I recommend is a simple oval patch (like “C”, but with the points inside the oval) that is easy to sew on. “Ranks” should be replaceable items. If the patch included a thread-worked grommet, a pin could be inserted through it–no sewing needed and low impact to fabric.

  158. marian walters // June 6, 2014 at 7:54 am // Reply

    I really like the patch as shown for each level of Venturing, but have to admit it would be a nightmare to deal with the sewing! I do, however, like the idea of designing a patch (much like a scouting rank patch) that would be replaced for each level. However, with the Summit, I strongly suggest that it be treated like the Eagle. You have a “rank” patch for your uniform and a medal for ceremonial wear. If we want our highest award to be the equivalent of the Scouting highest award, we need to treat it as such!!!

  159. Kris Swank // June 19, 2014 at 3:25 pm // Reply

    My son and daughter as well as their cousin earned the bronze (4 of them), gold and silver as well as the Ranger and Trust awards. If there is a Knot created for the Summit, I hope they make it retro-active to the Silver. I like the idea of oval or diamond shaped patch that changes for each award level…the really fancy shaped patches would be a nightmare to stitch on, I have hand sewn too many patches to want to face something like that

  160. Anonymous // July 1, 2014 at 4:04 pm // Reply

    Definitely like the medals best. So much easier to switch out, take off to wash, etc. It’s so hard to sew on the fabric the Venturing shirts are made of. And then our Eagle scouts could still wear their Eagle rank patch. And I think the medals look nicer. But that’s just my opinion.

  161. Scott Dowd // July 5, 2014 at 1:29 am // Reply

    Please do the medals with the bars too. When you have your uniform on and you have bars on your shirt it really stands out. More people focus on it than a patch. Maybe because it looks more military? This program in no way should look like the Boy Scouts rank system.

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