BSA membership resolution passes with more than 60 percent of vote

20130523-171320.jpg

After an extensive discussion within the organization, the Boy Scouts of America’s approximately 1,400 volunteer voting members chose to adopt the membership policy resolution and remove the restriction denying membership to youth on the basis of sexual orientation alone.

The final vote breakdown was 61.44 percent for the proposal, and 38.56 percent against. The change takes effect Jan. 1, 2014.

Voting results were tabulated and certified by TrueBallot, an independent, third-party voting firm.

Read more at this site, or find the full text of the BSA’s official media statement below:

For 103 years, the Boy Scouts of America has been a part of the fabric of this nation, with a focus on working together to deliver the nation’s foremost youth program of character development and values-based leadership training.

Based on growing input from within the Scouting family, the BSA leadership chose to conduct an additional review of the organization’s long-standing membership policy and its impact on Scouting’s mission. This review created an outpouring of feedback from the Scouting family and the American public, from both those who agree with the current policy and those who support a change.

Today, following this review, the most comprehensive listening exercise in Scouting’s history the approximate 1,400 voting members of the Boy Scouts of America’s National Council approved a resolution to remove the restriction denying membership to youth on the basis of sexual orientation alone. The resolution also reinforces that Scouting is a youth program, and any sexual conduct, whether heterosexual or homosexual, by youth of Scouting age is contrary to the virtues of Scouting. A change to the current membership policy for adult leaders was not under consideration; thus, the policy for adults remains in place. The BSA thanks all the national voting members who participated in this process and vote.

This policy change is effective Jan. 1, 2014, allowing the Boy Scouts of America the transition time needed to communicate and implement this policy to its approximately 116,000 Scouting units.

The Boy Scouts of America will not sacrifice its mission, or the youth served by the movement, by allowing the organization to be consumed by a single, divisive, and unresolved societal issue. As the National Executive Committee just completed a lengthy review process, there are no plans for further review on this matter.

While people have different opinions about this policy, we can all agree that kids are better off when they are in Scouting. Going forward, our Scouting family will continue to focus on reaching and serving youth in order to help them grow into good, strong citizens. America’s youth need Scouting, and by focusing on the goals that unite us, we can continue to accomplish incredible things for young people and the communities we serve.

1,432 thoughts on “BSA membership resolution passes with more than 60 percent of vote

  1. I’m quoting from the Membership Resolution Points of Clarification:
    “Some have asserted that this proposal will put children at higher risk of being sexually abused or bullied and that the organization will not be able to administer this policy while protecting the safety and privacy of all Scouts.

    The BSA would never consider a proposal that increased risk to young people. To be clear, the BSA makes no connection between the sexual abuse or victimization of a child and homosexuality. The BSA takes strong exception to this assertion. Some of the nation’s leading experts reinforce this position.”

    Except this does not address youth on youth harassment. For example, a 17 year old who is homosexual will share tents, bathrooms and showers with 15 year old young men who are not. That is not pedophilia, but it does violate the principles of Safe Scouting. We would not expect young women to have to shower with heterosexual young men, yet now we are not williing to provide young men that same protection. Not to mention undersge camp staff who are in positions of authority. The premise of Yout Protection has been to avoid the potential – not because all men are potentially interested in teen boys, but because there might be and the process eliminates the potential. Now, where youth are concerned, there is no protection from other youth.

    The Youth Protection policies of the Venturing program are the perfect example here. Read the questions from the handout from Venturing Yout Protection: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/ypt/pdf/25-026.pdf

    I have to admit, I expected this result. I am truly saddened by it. I hold no animosity for homosexuals whatsoever. I am happy to let them live their lives as they see fit. I appreciate that young homosexual men need training, role models, etc, but I don’t see how you can have a youth program where you take young men out for days at a time and integrate this way. And now, I can see no justification for segregating male and female members.

      • Funny – I have people giving my a hands down when I didn’t make a judgement at all on anyone. I just brought up a real issue that needs to be addressed. Rather than make an effort at addressing it, they would denounce my bringing it up.
        That’s kind of a summary of the entire issue it seems.

    • In what way does your hypothetical prove your point unless you assume that a 17 year old homosexual boy will be attracted to a 15 year old heterosexual boy or even make any over gesture. We already prohibit hazing, which has been applied to instances where any boy or group of boys commits any act that intimidates, embarrasses or threatens physical harm to another boy. We should expect all boys to act with respect toward one another.

      In all probability, you have or have had gay boys in your troop.

      • ILGoldst – “In what way does your hypothetical prove your point unless you assume that a 17 year old homosexual boy will be attracted to a 15 year old heterosexual boy or even make any over gesture.” No more assumption than the existing Youth Protection Plan covers coed activities. It’s silly to expect that all young men would be interested in all young women. Or likewise, all the Youth Protection guidelines. Using your comment, all adult men are not attracted to teenage boys, yet we put into place barriers to minimize the risk.
        All I ask, is for someone to provide a realistic methodology to provide young men the same protection we provide young women.
        Now on my hypothetical, are you suggesting that it’s unreasonable? I don’t at all. To address your last comment – yes, I have had. I even know of one from when I was a Scout years and years ago. I also know that in 2 cases I know, that young men who had never before expressed any interest in homosexuality, began expressing interest after their association. Maybe that was coincidental, or maybe they found the courage from that association, but who knows. I do know in those cases there was inappropriate behavior. One of those I saw first hand – was invited to participate and chose not to. So tell me again how this will prevent harassment. It won’t. It removes even the few barriers that existed before.

    • Any scout outing i have ever been on, the boys go to the shower house wearing swim trunks and they never take them off. Besides how many homosexual boys have already gone through scouting without saying a word and never made sexual advances on another boy?

      • Because it “probably happens all the time” is an interesting response you guys give. How about answering the question about how many boys have been harassed without exposing it for fear of embarrassment. Your arguments would never hold water applied to young women is my contention.

    • Well said- but still greatly saddened over this decision. I predict that soon…. the words “Eagle Scout,” will lose their significance in a very short period of time.

    • I can’t wait till the next financial report comes out from our district and the try to explain the drop in support from FOS and Popcorn. I am in shock how our local and national leaders led us down this path. I know what comes next –well to be fully inclusive this whole God thing is kinda not trending well in the national polls so its gotta go . It’s downhill from here folks. National has the same morals as Madonna. I will stay in scouts for now. I will no longer support FOS . I will no longer sell popcorn and give 40% to district. I will no longer volunteer for my local council .I will buy as little as possible from my local scout shop- forget about being Loyal to them , they haven’t been to me. I will work only for my troop and its boys as long as it still has God as a core value.

    • According the Charter and Bylaws, I believe that amending of the Bylaws requires 2/3′s vote of the majority attending to pass a resolution. Section 5 – and the meeting which was called in this case was a Special Meeting – meaning no other topics could be voted upon. 61.44% is not 66.66% votes required.

      Does anyone have another way this vote was to be counted?

    • Throughout life, one is known by the company they keep. Why is the college you pick so important, your friends, your career, all by association you become the person you are. Going camping and living with Gay Scouts is inconsistent with the image many parents want for their sons. Sorry, being Gay does not fly with being Morally Straight and Mentally awake not to mention sleeping with our straight son who is a scout. This is the beginning of the end of Scouting, 103 years and 80 years of scouting legacy i our family down the drain just so a bunch of Gay people can win an argument, wouldn’t they rather just go shopping and have lunch like the rest of the girls?

      • As a group in this discussion – we haven’t agreed on very much. But can we all at least agree that Clayton is a bigot?

        • I would ask if Clayton is labeled a bigot, we can agree that db is most certainly a bigot. He is hateful and intolerant to Clayton and fits the definition perfectly.

          There is no hate in what Clayton is saying. Freedom of Association is guaranteed by the Constitution and anyone who lives by the common-sense rules of avoiding bad associations, especially those influencing your children. He does want his kids being influenced by youth or adults with same gender sexual attraction. Seems natural even by natures law. Surely you accept that pro-creation requires male and female in the natural world and a child should understand the natural way of things before experimenting with alternative sexual behavior.

          Many of you are intolerant of Christians and their beliefs. Does that make you a bigot?

        • Hmm. The part I noticed in Clayton’s comment was that all girls just want to shop and go to lunch. So that is some pretty heavy stereotyping, wouldn’t you say?

        • But does it constitute bigotry? Really? Every time i mention I am from the South, I am stereotyped on this list. Folks think I must be late for a lynching. Not bigotry.

        • Fred, noone here wants to lynch you, regardless of how much we disagree with you.

        • Actually, I was thinking others would think I would be late to attending one. Some folks think that despicable act still happens here.

          I just think the words “hate” and “bigotry” get thrown around carelessly so I try to open the accusers eyes to the fact that no one I know truly hates homosexual people. They would not limit their constitutional rights in any way.

          “Tolerance” is looked on as a virtue. I do not see it that way. I have to get to know someone to allow them to be more than an acquaintance or accept how they behave and I hope it is vice-versa. Discernment and “discrimination” are not the same thing.

        • Actually Fred, there were was more to what Clayton said than that all girls want to go shopping. His implication was that gay men are girlie – so all the gays should want to join the girls and go shopping rather join scouts. So he was stereotyping gays and he was stereotyping women. I have no idea what religion Clayton is. And I never said anything about Christians – so I don’t know where you got the idea that I view Christians as bigots. (because I don’t) I was talking about one person who was probably purposely throwing fuel on the fire rather than addressing the issues at hand like you’re trying to do.

        • Well, stereotyping is certainly a necessary condition for bigotry; whether it is a sufficient condition may be open to debate. The absence of such broad stereotyping would have been evidence contrary to bigotry; the presence of it leaves the door open.

      • @Clayton,
        The vast majority of boys in Scouting go to public or private school with a few gay kids, go to church with a few gay kids, play sports, do 4H, play in the band, and do all the other typical youth activities with a few gay kids. No one judges these kids for doing so, or for keeping this company; it is not generally an issue at all. The BSA is no different.
        They have also made it clear that “any sexual conduct, whether heterosexual or homosexual, by youth of Scouting age is contrary to the virtues of Scouting, and that no member may use Scouting to promote or advance any social or political position or agenda”.
        If you would prefer that your son not share a tent with a particular Scout, I’m sure your scoutmaster would accommodate that request.

        • Do you seriously think that BSA will allow a Scoutmaster to place a homosexual boy in a tent alone when no other Scout wants to tent with him? Does a Scoutmaster want to place an older homosexual Scout with a new Scout? You can bet there will be a way to tell Scoutmasters what they have to do to avoid that situation. How to act and speak and teach the Scouts how to act and think. Sorry, not for me.

          BSA never thinks of the leaders in the field. A Scoutmaster or ASM who does not want to deal with sexually confused boys who want to know if they are truly homosexual and want to test the waters . I didn’t sign on for that and that is fiine with BSA and me.

          Yeah, all of the Scouts in the Troop go to public schools. Middle Schools of over 600 and 2 High Schools of over 2,000. They see it all, sexual expression through PDA’s, larceny, lying, cheating, illegal drug use, alcohol use and yes homosexuals expression through dress, PDA’s and habits. All in a County of 55,000. Guess what, many Scouts just want a safe place to escape all that including homosexuality.

          The jury is out on absolutely no sexuality if you are homosexual. Its very names requires sexuality. Now that open and avowed is out of Policy language, do you not think the boundaries will be tested with GLAAD encouraging youth to join to change the organization from the inside?

        • Fred asked “Do you seriously think that BSA will allow a Scoutmaster to place a homosexual boy in a tent alone when no other Scout wants to tent with him?”

          Yes. We have scouts tent alone all the time. Some sleep in tents alone. Some in hammocks. The younger boys want to buddy up – but often the older boys will want a tent to themselves. I’d never force a boy to share a tent with someone he didn’t want to. And the BSA won’t create a rule requiring it.

        • Fred as always you hit a home run in your discription of what are youth are exposed to. I have long believed that the BSA is a non – denomination sanctuary and a place of protection from the elements of declining values. I have seen the results of public schools, hollywood, TV and video games. When one of my Scouts want to bring their video games or any electronic media to a scout function I make them put it away till they leave for home. This is probably the only situation that does not allow the Scout to use thier electric devises under my stewardship. In many cases the Scout leader is a mentor for values and with a declining moral society the need for a value based youth organization is more needed now than ever. The combination of Church and a Scouting program is about the only chance to save our youth from the evilness of our society. Fred thanks for all you do for Americas youth. Trenton Spears

  2. The BSA voted to abandon its core principles and instead chase the mythical pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. There is no point in supporting an organization that chooses not to defend – or even honor – the values for which it was created. This is a dark, dark day for our society.

    • “More than 60%” — but not of its members, not of its Scouts, not of its Councils.

      Very sad to see that this was all just a sham. Shame on them.

      • I wonder if any executives at the BSA have got the brains or the guts to see that the majority of the people posting on this site aren’t exactly happy how they are being represented. Let us all vow to hit them hard with our pocketbooks and our resolve in helping our boy’s but not a penny for them.

  3. Being a volunteer in the BSA has NEVER been about “supporting” our youth! It has (until now) been about TEACHING them, teaching the the core values of Scouting which has always been a Christian based Organization (until now). When my own children look back as adult i hope they remember the times that they “hated me” for not supporting them and their bad decisions, and also Thank God that I was the parent and Leader that I am!!!

    • Sorry, Scott, but the BSA has never been a “Christian based Organization” – nothing about that in the 1911 Handbook. Nothing in the policies. It IS faith-based, but, per the Declaration of Religious Principle, is “absolutely nonsectarian”. There are religious emblems for a variety of non-Christian faiths.

        • Uh, no. You can thank Baden-Powell. He was very vocal on the role of religion in Scouting (even Christianity). He just didn’t care which religion you were.

        • Bob, B-P gave us Duty to God, but it was West who added morally straight (which had nothing to do with sexuality in 1911) and reverent.

      • The BSA simply stopped discriminating against youth, that isn’t abandoning their principles, it’s supporting them.

        • Sorry, BSA accepted immoral behavior where it had not before. Denying immoral children is not discrimination.

  4. Scouting has been and always will be for the youth. Adults who are leaders are here to continue the pass onto the boys their knowledge. As a member of the scouting family I am glad to see that the resolution has been passed, now lets look at including gay adults

      • KS,
        I have been following this debate for many months. My opinion on here has always been an honest one. I have always said that scouting is for the youth and we should listen to the youth, for if it wasn’t for the youth we as ASM’s, SM’s, ASL’s or SL’s we wouldn’t be part of scouts for there would be no scouts. I would like to believe that no matter who you are, what your beliefs are, where you come from, or came from you me, anyone has some form of knowledge to pass onto the youth. There are members on this site, that believe I shouldn’t be saying anything on the topic, However I am a Scout Leader, albeit a Scout Leader from Australia, I believe that the BSA is making the right decision about allowing gays even tho it’s not full inclusion only partial inclusion into the family of Souting. It doesn’t matter the country you are in Scouts Australia, Scouts UK, Scouts Canada or the BSA we all wear the WOSM badge, therefore we are one family the family of scouting. I will willingly stand next to anyone who supports an all inclusive scouting movement for either youth, or for youth and adults and call them my brother or sister.

        David Richardson
        Scout Leader
        Scouts Australia
        Western Austalian division

    • “Scouting has been and always will be for the youth. Adults who are leaders are here to continue the pass onto the boys their knowledge.” Well put, David. This is something we all should remember. Another item to remember is not all gay persons are pedophiles.

      • Pedophilia is not at issue; the youth served by Boy Scouts and Venturing are outside the range of pedophiles, who are attracted to pre-pubescent children. The homosexual preoccupation with teenagers is deep-rooted from Classical Athens (see Plato’s “Symposium”) to the Victorian Era (see the works of the Uranian Poets, Henry Tuke and Baron von Gloeden, Mann’s “Death in Venice” etc) to contemporary times (see any of the literature advertised in the back of physique magazines). This isn’t pedophilia, the boys involved aren’t children, they’re young men.

        • M N – the pedophile thing is nothing more than a redirect tactic. It’s a way of directing the conversation away from that uncomfortable topic. There’s a reason why the term Twink exists.
          This campaign has never been about Scouting – it’s about legitimizing a behavior that’s considered sinful by some and makes those who practice it uncomfortable.

    • After including gay adults, then lets look at removing the pledge of allegiance, then God out of the oath etc, etc. That’s what this is all about. Surely you see?

      • Bonnie,
        You must be a very special person, and for that I tip my hat to you.

        I can tell a black man, due to the color of his skin,
        I can tell a Asian due to the shape of their eyes,
        I can tell an American due to their accent

        I cannot tell, by looking at someone if they are gay or not. There is only two ways I now of telling if someone is gay, I ask them, or They tell me. Do you ask everyone you meet if they are gay, I guess it would go something like this ” Hi, I’m David I’m heterosexual, are you gay?”, sorry that’s right you (Bonnie) can tell just by looking. I don’t car if someone is gay or not. What i look for in a person is “What can I learn from this person”.

        As far as God is concerned, I am neither an atheist nor do I practise a religion. As a child I used to because my parents took me to church every Sunday, however when I turned 16 I stopped. Why? Because I have trouble believing in a single person having ultimate power, ultimate control, there are also flaws in the bible. Genesis 1:1 “In the beginning God created the heavens and earth”. If God created the heavens where was he before the beginning. However I don’t judge someone for their religious beliefs for we are all free to choose. Likewise during prayers at troop meeting I show my respect to those who do believe.

        Does this mean I am any less a person, does it mean I don’t have the right to share my knowledge with scouts from my troop, or should I hang up my scout uniform and stove pipe the knowledge and experience so one day like me it will die and be lost forever

  5. Can we poll the vote. I would like to see how my Counsel voted. I’m disappointed. Not because gay boys will be allowed. I mean how many gay 11-13 year olds are really out there. That’s the majority of scouts. No it’s because now we’re just one step away from gay adults being allowed. You watch, in just a few years policy will change on that as well. Adults can drive their agendas much better than a youth can. Anyway – aren’t we all looking forward to the first legally gay Eagle Scout celebration. Can’t wait to get that over with.

    • My council sent out an email saying that all of their votes would be cast in favor of the resolution

      • Give me thumbs down all you want it doesn’t change how my councils leadership chose to vote.

        • My council Sam Houston Area Council voted down the proposal. One voter had a homosexual son and voted for it.

        • The thing you don’t understand is the council reps vote how the council tells them too… So while your trying to make the fellow sound noble all he was voting exactly how he was told to.

    • The actual voting members are the Chartered Organization Reps and the President of the Councils. 70% of Charter Oraganizations are faith based sponsors. Of that number, 25% are Mormon, who approved of the measure. This means, that approximately 40% of units will not be rechartered by their current sponsors come Jan. 1

  6. God is great! Excellent news, ashamed it took us so long to get here. Now, let’s fix the membership policy and ensure Eagles turning 18 and Leaders can be included, as well…

    • Brian, I agree that God is Great. But, please inform us all where you can prove that being gay is an acceptible teaching of God. Not the God of a word for word literal translation Bible. God hates sin period… all kinds. Just because a group of people choose to agreee that something is ok does not make it right. Also, what does morallly straight mean now?

      There were many a person that thought Hitler was a great leader, that definitely didn’t make what he did a good thing.

      Sorry, if you really didn’t believe in what the Scouts stood for in the first place,then why did you ever join. Give a real answer, research what you believe in and tell us what the real goal is.

      You an never vote people to accept you. Sorry

      • Morally straight does not equal sexually straight.
        I know of many sexually straight people who are not morally straight. Hitler, for example.

        • Your are a sick person, using Hitler to support acceptance of homosexual youth.

        • @Fred Cooper: I used Hitler because Martin, to whom I was replying, used him as an example.
          I had to “reply” to myself because your post did not have this option for me.

        • Doesn’t make you or him right. You should do as I did and point out the sickness of the example, not perpetuate it.

          IMHO, this entire issue revolves around accepting boy-boy sexual attraction and normal and moral or immoral and unnatural. I believe the latter. For me, enough of people who believe as I believe capitulated to provide a majority and we will rue the day this proposal passed. I just hope BSA is more open reporting boy-boy sexual assault than they were adult-boy sexual assault.

          NAMBLA Troop #!! How does that sound?

        • Fred, I don’t see what Martin states is for homosexual youth being in Boy Scouts. I read just the opposite. Sounds like he is just pointing out that if you didn’t believe in what the Scouts stood for in the first place why, as a gay youth, would you join them a agree with their standards etc.

          sounds like the intention is to destroy a great organization by breaking it apart and trying to force something upon a group of private citizens, hence the statement: you can not vote for people to accept you.

          No one would ever normally go out and join any group if they did not believe in what it stood for, be it a church, club or any organization. The only logical intention would be to break it apart.

          It is very sad that we let a minority group determine everything that happens in this country. The leaders are all greedy and money was the determining factor. Just look into what their salaries are. Everything they do is about money. It is the local Troop that has always made the difference.

        • How about adulterers and folks who are divorced????

          are they moral folks in gods eyes????

        • I think the pro-revised policy people do think adulterers, thieves and liars are certainly welcome on Scouting. How are we to know and who are we to judge? We can;t invade their privacy by asking questions. Witness testimony is hearsay after all.

          On the other hand, as far as divorced, some were forced into it by irrational Spouses and should be judged on their own merits.

      • I say if the BSA is banning all scouts and scouters for sin than the BSA would be no more. None of us are without sin, including you Sir.

  7. I as a leader with over 14 years in scouting, am done. This is pandoras box. To throw away your morals for greed is what is wrong with this country in the first place. There are no morals anymore, we cant even include god in a sentence without backlash. Next will be the atheists, guess we all should just throw our bible away.
    What a horrible day

    • hmmm, the methodist church welcomes all.

      Last i heard so do the mormons and catholic……Hate the sin love the sinner…

      • As does the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. An issue of doctrine that separates us from our Missouri Synod brethren.

        • Downvoting my comment won’t make the ELCA change their policy. We already lived through the knee-jerk reactions to the statement.of inclusion.

      • Bob, I like your responses to the resolution and would like to add some fellow Scouter support… I had a conversion earlier about this. My point was that a church will let sinners in. How else can you evangelize? A church will let a adulterer, a cheat, a thief, even a convicted murder on probation into its church as a means for them to seek forgiveness.

        Those that are against this resolution, would have to believe that homosexuality is an unforgivable sin, that if one were to say that they are attracted to the opposite sex that they are locked in forever to a life a damnation and can never return from it.

        Those that are against the resolution would also have to support that professed homosexual youth cannot be helped by the Scouting movement. A Scout could even be joking around and be barred from Scouting because of it.

        Another point that was made by another Scouter, homosexuals are already in the Units. This simply allows for them to be open it about. Otherwise the “policy” would be teaching, “don’t tell, until after you are out of Scouts”. So much for teaching Trustworthy … and that’s the first point of the Scout Law.

        There are others that profess that BSA is a Christian based organization. I guess that they better not tell that to the recipients of the Buddhist, Hindu, Islamic, Meher Baba, and the Zoroastrian religious awardees (which according to the BSA publication of religious awards are acceptable to BSA).

        Now, you can’t complain about something without offering a solution. I understand the thoughts on youth-on-youth sexual advances and potential hazing. But don’t complain about it unless you have a recommendation of a solution. Most camps have already changed to single shower stalls.

        I am an Eagle Scout and I believe in the Scouting movement. I also believe that everyone can benefit from the Scouting movement.

        • SM-James – “But don’t complain about it unless you have a recommendation of a solution. Most camps have already changed to single shower stalls.” James, the solution already existed. That solution has been removed now. My contention is that there is no solution that allows Scouting to exist as it does today without endangering young men. If you disagree, I am completely open to your thoughts on how it can be inclusive while protecting the young men.
          This is not about blocking young homosexual men from Scouting (and has nothing to do with forgiveness) but about Youth Protection. Show me the functional alternative, and I’d be glad to get on board.

        • SM-James: your comment is missing one important point. Yes the church’s allow all sinners in including homosexuals. They do however demand that the homosexual stop all homosexual activity. The sin must stop. Here the boy scouts have no mechanism for a practicing avowed homosexual scout to be kept from the Pack/Troop. This is an abomination.

      • Accepting someone us not condoning someones actions. Remember Jesus ate with the prostitutes and tax collectors. He accepted them but did not condone what they did.

        • Scouter: Yes he did. And he warned them to go and sin no more. Jesus knew that if they did not stop their sinful behavior, they would be condemned to hell. Pretty harsh but that is reality. Don’t create your own reality. And yes the scouts before this were able to me these types of judgments in the best interest of the organization. Alas no more.

    • I am with you Ben. Scouting has no place for me but does have a place for those who define their life by a sexual attraction. Woe.

      • Fred, it was BSA that in the 1990′s defined their life by a sexual attraction. Now we are back to the policy of my youth, where we don’t make an issue of this. Most of these boys would rather not be labeled, except to be labeled as scouts and some day Eagle Scouts. I hope you will stay in scouting and continue to serve the boys that you have been so dedicated to in the past.

        • Thank you for your comment but I will not enable homosexual behavior in a troop of adolescent boys. I will not be placed in a position to try to convince a straight boy to tent with a homosexual boy to satisfy BSA homosexual acceptance policy. I am unequipped for it, I do not support it or believe it is healthy morally, spiritually or physically and I will not stand for it.

        • Fred I have a extra tent I can send to u so u can have a tent for boys that are NOT afraid to sleep in the same tent with gay children. DO NOT GET ME WRONG I do not believe that children under the age of 16 should be sexually active but unfortunately it does happen. Relax homosexuality is everywhere and to think that you have never encountered anyone that is a homosexual is pure nonsense wake up its a fact its not a sin its a different way of life. Quit being so put off on the matter and respect good people come in all shapes, sizes, colors, and orientation.

        • Homosexuality is not everywhere. A great fallacy of the homosexual community. BSA will not allow me to put the homosexual Scout in a separate tent which is exactly what I would do. They will require me to separate the intolerant straight Scout. Buddy system is in effect. Scouts sleep 2 or 3 if an odd number.

          Sorry, I have homosexuals in my extended family and some of my vendors are homosexual. I avoid the rest,

          Nope, its immoral, not a way of life. I guess goat-sex to you is an alternative acceptable lifestyle as long as the goat is not injured?

        • Really goats? I thought we were talking about young men, I can send you the tent for gay young men if you would like. I really do not believe that any gay children would risk their scout career to try to fondle another child in the tent with more children in their with them. Boys want to be scouts to learn and experience the great things scouting offers, As boy scout policy stands, it is never one on one with any scout through badges etc so sleeping arrangements would be the same. If there was 3 to a tent and 1 scout was gay, it is highly doubtful that a pass would be made at either of the remaining scouts, as they would outnumber the gay scout and tell the other scouts and at the very least be shunned by the troop. If a boy joins scouts they must agree to a hands to yourself policy or risk loosing their efforts towards badges etc by removal from the scouting program. Scouting is a lot of work from our sons, they will want to do anything they can to remain in the program.

        • I am sure you are familiar with how the Homosexual Community has worked its agenda into organizations before. Straight Federal workers are terrified to say anything to LGTB employees for fear of reprisal.

          I guess, unlike you, i have nver met a homosexual that could lived without sexual desire and if a young boy thinks homosexuality defines who he is and BSA says thats cool then why would he not allow is same sex attraction to take place in a tent with vulnerable boy who is confused sexually?

          He can’t be shunned. it will now be against Scout Policy and constitute bullying. heck, I’ve been told teasing in any form now constitutes bullying. I don’t want young men walking on eggshells because an immoral Scout cannot be excluded from the Group. Sexuality has no place between young boys in Scouting. I want no part of it and will recommend Scout age boys seek other options for character education. Scouting does not offer it anymore.

        • Agreed sexuality has no place in scouting I am simply stating that the gay boys that join would simply be in scouting to be a scout and to do scout things,not to find a date for prom or to try to orientate another boy.. You sound like a good scout person – maybe this solution would work with you, if you get a gay orientated scout in your group, offer their parent a place to help in your troop, this way while camping the parent is along for the trip and can monitor the child more easily. make a new policy of a 3 buddy system. This way everyone is protected. Well goodnight have a nice day and nite. Its not the end of the world, its just a new way to cope with it.

        • Thank you Fred!! That is exactly how my scouts feel, they do not ‘hate’ these individuals they just do not want to have to share tents, showers, etc. with them – it’s personal and they are allowed to feel that way! And so are you – God bless you Fred!!

        • Tani,
          My question for you is would you have a problem putting your 16 year old daughter in a tent with a young heterosexual man?
          Note, nowhere am I passing judgment on the practice – that’s up to each and everyone to determine with their own conscience. But this issue is about the young men. Where is their protection – why do we insist on denying them the same respect and protection we give our young women?
          Funny, one of the headlines today is one of the military academies prosecuting some guy for looking at female cadets in the showers. Yet, military men are forced to be in that situation now.

        • Boy Scouting is boy scouting girls do not camp along with the boys unless its a family camp out then each family would have their own tent. No I would not let my sons camp in the same tent as a teenage female unless it was under adult supervision and the female was a family member. Not everyone can afford tents but if it came down to a family camp out with my sons and a teenage girl and my self it would either be 2 tents or all in one and separate sides of the tent

        • I guess we need to invest in tent separators since their popularity in Scout Troops will now explode. Better not include a zipper though…

        • Tani, Scouting is coed for certain programs. Venturing is a BSA program for ages 14-22. They currently have Youth Protection guidelines that require separate facilities. It’s not because we think every boy or girls is attracted to each other, but because there is the potential – even worse if it is one sided and someone feels harassed.
          Yet we don’t protect young men now.
          Although, I have to admit you are the only person who has suggested any sort of policy. 3 on 3 always would provide a certain degree of protection – although I’m not sure how workable that would really be.

        • Well said Brian. I was out of the scouting movement for just over 20 years when my sons wanted to join. I was really surprised at how homophobic the organization had become when I came back (it’s been 8 years since I’ve been back). As it happened, when I was scouting in my youth it turned out that there were 2 scouts who were gay – one is even an Eagle Scout. If there were gay scouts during my day then I suspect there were gay scouts before my time and after my time. Do you know who is gay is who straight in your Pack or Troop? I suspect many don’t… BTW, I shared a tent with these guys and my wife says I’m still straight.

      • Fred,
        Sorry to butt in here but I’m going to give you my two cents worth of thought. Before you respond please read and digest the following words.

        How are you going to know if a boy in your troop is gay or not. The only way you are going to know this is to do one of the following

        1. On your membership application form you will have to ask the question “Are you a homosexual? YES/NO”

        2. Ask the youth member directly

        3. Force the youth member to tell, just because yo suspect.

        Fred all of these are an invasion of privacy. Unless you ask you will never know. Fred accept someone for who they are, pass on your knowledge and hope that one day they will do the same

        • We did not need this new rule for the scenario you paint. The current rule is the scenario you paint. Now, openly homosexual children who I think are too young and immature to know will be telling most everyone they are homosexual. It is part of who they are. Being “out” is all about being gay. You are incredibly naive if you think a homosexual child will keep it i himself when BSA just said publicly it is cool t be gay and out in Scouting as long as you do not engage openly in sexual behavior.

          Me invading their privacy is absolutely laughable. I try to avoid the homosexual lifestyle every day. Open homosexuality is repulsive to me. You are being naive is you think any homosexual Scout will now not share that information with his Troop members. Why would he not. AS a poster said a while back. Its as natural s a boy talking about his girlfriend. I’m sorry, a lot of parents don’t want young children being taught boy-boy sexual attraction is cool. They have that right without being called names. They will vote with their feet and I am with them. I too believe their children will be better adults without that in their lives.

        • David a food for thought I believe that homosexuals scouts will have to declare their choice on the Scouting application how else will the council keep accurate records and follow the trend in its membership and adjust to its recruiting goals. In my many years of Scout Leadership I have ask my scouts to not make any jokes about homosexuals boys will be boys and I will continue to stop this kind of behavior. I would like to know if I have a homosexual scout in my troop so that as a Scoutmaster you can mentor your scouts effectively. Trenton Spears Scoutmaster

        • Trenton,
          Why would a council need o track a trend in gays, that s just an I nation of privacy. How would a CO adjust its advertising and recruiting. I could see there rusting drive going something like this

          Hi and welcome to South of the River Council District. We believe in an inclusive Scouting policy but Troop 1400 you closest troop has all its gay positions filled, but join Troop 1399 they have 5 gay positions open, but you will have to drive 40 miles to join them.

          Whether a youth member is a heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual or trisexual who cares, they are all here for the same reason adventure, friendship, expanding their knowledge in a fun non school way.

          I know I and the rest of my leaders don’t care we only care that each youth member is treated with respect, and dignity. No matter who you are, everyone has something to offer scouting, and everyone adult and youth can learn from scouting.

          Trenton I am sure that if we and our troops were to ever meet, we would all sit around the campfire tell campfire stories sing campfire songs and drink campfire hot chocolate, and the only thing that would be different is the following
          1. The uniform
          2. Our troop would come with girls

        • David the campfire sounds good to me you can share my campfire anyday. I have enjoyed many campouts and campfires with other troops over 28 years and what a great time it was and still is. Sex was never a subject and the focus was just laughing and telling great stories and making Smores. I personally believe that all youth should have that experiance and the BSA has been the best at teaching how to have fun along with learning values. We have a saying in our Council if your not having fun in scouting you are not scouting. I will be attending my second 2013 National Jamboree at the Summit in Virginia at 76 of age It will probably my last one I will add it to my many memories of the greatist youth organization in the World the Boy Scouts of America. I believe that the homosexual movement has brought on this delima and the need to change the policy was a payback to large corperations to save funding for scouting. I believe that scouting has taken the wrong step in solving the issue a Scout at 17 can be a scout but let him turn 18 and he is an adult no longer allowed to be a Scout leader. This is bad policy and it should never have been brought up and voted on it will only bring about more change to include LBGT in Scouting there is after Thurdays vote no avoiding it. Sincerely, Trenton Spears

        • I’m waiting for the new sensitivity classes to be added to Adult Leader Training, Woodbadge, the University of Scouting, etc. When LGBT “inclusiveness” is added to part of any organization’s agenda, it quickly morphs into LGBT “acceptance,” and then, “celebration.” Those khaki “equal” signs will soon become part of the official uniform, and will probably become the symbol for the “Lifestyle Diversity Coordinator” position that will be added to the “Leave No Trace Trainer” position when adult homosexuals are included after, oh, say, about one or two years.

  8. For those of you who think that this will make everything OK and everyone will be one big happy scouting family (Oh,and all those Companies who pulled funding will open their checkbooks again. Plus all the local Governments will open their support and facilities to BSA). And that thousands of “Gay” youth will come surging forward to join.
    I have some land under a bridge I would like to sell you.
    This is just the beginning. The Culture Wars will continue.

    For those of you who are celebrating this occasion, try practicing what you preach, TOLERANCE. Drop the accusations of Bigotry, Hate Speech, and the “we don’t need you anyway”, and all the other insults. Remember a scout is Courteous and Kind and Brave enough to take the high ground. .

    I really miss the scouting of my youth when this stuff was not talked about. It never was an issue. This topic has divided the movement, hopefully it can recover.
    Only time will tell..

    • Ron, I agree that this “stuff” shouldn’t be talked about and should be an issue. That is why I applaud the passage of the resolution. A scout’s sexual orientation is no longer an issue, just like the color of his skin or the manner of his worship. We can show our scouts that we judge people on their conduct and character.

      • Sexual orientation and racism are in no way the same. It is an insult to those who fought for their freedom to group their cause with that of homosexuals. Race is not a choice!

        • Sexual orientation is also not a choice, unless you choose not to believe in science. Keep in mind, as someone earlier pointed out, even the Catholic Church eventually conceded that the earth was round.

        • Ridiculous argument. There is no conclusive evidence that homosexuality is not a choice. Homosexual advocates claim markers and pools of genes and biological soup but it’s obviously not normal in nature because it does not lead to pro-creation but only sexual satiation which is immoral. Love for the same gender is misplaced emotion to accomplish a sexual purpose. How many celibate homosexual couples d you know? If love is pure, that would be the case.

        • I can’t say I know of any celibate couples, homosexual or heterosexual. That would be a sad thing. As far as monogamous committed homosexual couples, quite a few. And there are many examples of homosexuality in the animal world. A species can propagate just fine with a minority of homosexual members. Amazing how God made the world!

    • I’m looking for those values in your statement here. I read ignorance and head-in-the-sand. It was better when we didn’t wear seat belts or bike helmets either,

    • Ron, the issue I have with people preaching “tolerance” back at the supporters of this resolution is that there is none given in return. In my discussions with those folks, it has been “their way or the highway”.

      I personally don’t have a problem if a CO really feels strongly about the issue; it can be part of the onboarding process to let prospective Scouts and parents know that the CO is or is not friendly to gays. (I thought the local option would have been a less-divisive choice than the resolution, but who am I anyway)

      I’ll be happy to take the rejects from those organizations in my (well, my grandson’s) Troop. I’ve had many more problems with ‘straights’ (anger issues, racist comments, liquor on outings, unwillingness to participate) than I have had with, say, the three moms of one of my Eagle Scouts.

  9. Though I am disappointed that the resolution passed because homosexuality is wrong and shouldn’t be validated, the passing of this resolution confirms several important points:
    1. There is a difference between homosexual behavior and homosexual attraction. (the same way that there’s a difference between wanting something and stealing it)
    2. Scouting age youth shouldn’t be sexually active.
    3. A statement of sexual preference by Scouting age youth doesn’t carry much weight because they are still developing.

  10. Everyone who voted for the institutional suicide of this once great organization should be deeply ashamed. I will be informing our local council that our troop will no longer participate in Friends of Scoutng, summer camp etc.

    • Why are you going to deny your Scouts the opportunity to participate because *some* of the people you and they encounter *might* be different in one aspect of their lives?

        • “Boy-led Troop” does not mean “Lord of the Flies.” Adult mentoring from mature adults has always been a part of Scouting.

        • Fred, I agree that adult mentoring is an important part of the Scouting program. The adults our Scouts see and learn from can teach tolerance and acceptance of people who are ‘different’, or they can teach … something else.

        • I have no idea what David just said, alluded to, hinted at or had a brain fart about. Please help.

        • The adults our Scouts see and learn from can teach tolerance and acceptance of people who are ‘different’, or they can teach them to be suspicious, intolerant, and unaccepting of people who do not look, talk, walk, eat, believe, pray, or otherwise act exactly as they do.

          Clear enough?

        • or they can teach them that homosexuality is immoral and self-destructive behavior. I like that. Under the new policy though, I would be silenced. You like that.

        • You wouldn’t be silenced. You’d just have to live with people you disagree with.

          If you stick around, I think eventually you’ll find they’re just people trying to make their way in the world.

        • We will see. I have no confidence BSA will treat Christians any differently than every other organization that capitulated to Homosexual activists.

          We all just try to get through the day but for me, I do it while maintaining a drt of ethical and moral standards based on biblical principle. That means that I am in direct opposition to a permissive culture that accepts active homosexuality as normal behavior and normal in any sense of the word.

        • Well, I guess where we part ways is that I don’t believe it’s my charge to be judge and jury about other peoples’ lives; that’d be God’s place. They’ll have to answer for theirs and I for mine, and I’d rather err on the side of being kind “to the least of these” when I’m called to answer.

          Peace to you and yours.

    • Another example of “Baby with the Bathwater”. How would it feel if the 61% didn’t participate in FOS or Summer Camp because of the policy of discrimination? Some did that, and it only hurt scouting. Would you poke holes in the bottom of your boat because you don’t like the other passengers? Why are we leaders? Why do we care? The Boys, of course! And ALL boys deserve the opportunity to learn from the great scouting program!

      • I don’t give to the Fund our Salaries campaign…..

        I pay for boys who cannot afford camp to go……I don’t need contribute to a $200k SE salary……My DE does nothing for me but collect my apps and fees after school night.

      • well then we may as well let the girls go camping with the boys also … what would be the difference???

        • Well, we do let the girls go camping with the boys, in Venturing. And we use Youth Protection policies to make sure that everyone’s privacy, safety, and propriety are protected. It works well.

        • Vanessa,
          Have a look at the policies of other western countries, UK, CANADA, AUSTRALIA. They have a co-ed scouting policy, and it’s really simple. Male/Female toilets and showers, males and females sleep in seperate tents and we always make sure there are at least 1 male and 1 female leader on camp.

          It is amazing to watch the boys learning from the girls and visa versa thy all learn something. One day you should try it. Just use Common sense

        • And Karen, the Youth Protection policy for Venturing is that young and women have separate facilities for sleeping, restrooms, bathing, etc. The training even includes discussion about the budding sexuality of this age as being part of the reason. That doesn’t really work in this case.
          How do you apply that to just young men? WOuld you suggest that you separate hetero- and homosexual Scouts? That’s pretty silly. So what do you suggest?

        • well if my whole family is at camp with my boy scout, im not sure weather I would feel more comfortable with a non straight boy to be in the boys restroom at the same time as my son, or in the girls restroom with my daughter.. Id have to say none. so are girls allowed to join boy scouts too or are they limited to girl scouts?

  11. To those who oppose this change, please stay. You will find that nothing changes. The sun will come up tomorrow. Gay youth have been earning their Eagle rank under the current policy. I know one. He broke no rules. It’s just that they don’t have to hide. Will there be regrettable incidents? There are now (many of you were eager to tell your stories.) As you showed, they happen today, and would still have happened tomorrow even if there were no change in the policy.

    If you do leave, realize that you will be smoothing the way for future change to admit LGBT leaders. I personally support that change, and I hope we see it soon. But I hope that you will still be here with us to see that it really doesn’t change anything.

        • It’s okay. He doesn’t know me, and has no clue either way. I would assume that he either feels that you can only support LGBT causes if you are LGBT, or that he’s insulting me in some way by calling me LGBT.

    • Kevin,
      I would respectfully disagree with you. This is a major change and endangers Youth Protection. This should not have been passed without some effort being put to how it would be implemented pertaining to youth protection. As it is, we’ve thrown heterosexual young men under the bus. Of course, Kevin, to you this may seem like acceptable losses (since there are incidents now, a few more won’t make a difference). Is that what I read?

      • What I said (or intended to say) is that this will not change whether “bad things” happen by either causing more or less. Some folks have posted their own bad experiences here. Those all happened under a the old policy.

        The BSA’s experts concluded that this does not endanger Youth Protection.

        • Open acceptance means that there is less of a negative influence that discourages acting out. Maybe that will have no impact – but the likelihood is that it will. If nothing else, it will generate more opportunity.

          “The BSA’s experts concluded that this does not endanger Youth Protection.” OK – no danger then. All is good.
          If you’ll note, BSA’s comments about Youth Protection all center around adult leaders. They are conspicuously silent on the issue of youth on youth issues.

        • “Concerned bout Youth” incorrectly said “If you’ll note, BSA’s comments about Youth Protection all center around adult leaders. They are conspicuously silent on the issue of youth on youth issues.”

          As a commissioner, I strongly urge him to retake Youth Protection Plan Training ASAP , as he obviously wasn’t paying attention the last time he took it, which should have been in the past two years. Youth Protection Plan Training most emphatically discusses the methods of preventing youth on youth issues.

        • Gary,
          Maybe you misunderstood my comment. I’m not talking about all BSA communication related to YP, but about the policy change. As a commissioiner also, I’m well aware of, and fully trained in Youth Protection. I have been teaching the material since it’s inception. The Venturing Youth Protection is very clear about segregation of genders, as well as youth and adults. The idea is that creating barriers mitigates the potential for problems. This policy change removes any possibility of barriers, and now relies solely on the individual to behave – in complete oppositioin to the policies on gender and age that currently exist.

    • Kevin are you thinking that LGBT will be banned from Scouting after the change in scouting policy allowing youth homosexuals to legally join the BSA. It is on its way and there is no way to stop it. If any smoothing was done for the future it was the 1400 delegates that voted against the will of 60% of the BSA membership that did not want the ban lifted. The door is open and more change is on its way. Homosexuality has taken over our schools and now they have to teach our children a chosen lifestyle on others it will soon be an issue with the BSA and it will be a part of the Youth Protection criteria in training. The schools could not keep the education on homosexuality out of its curriculum and neither will the BSA. Kevin if you can’t stand on your principles what use are your principles. You cannot expect people to support an organization that no longer supports them and their values. This has been a divisive issue and the new proposal will only increase the path of division more. Sincerely,
      Trenton Spears

      • People keep repeating that “60%” of the members responding to the survey didn’t want it repealed. But the survey showed that the majority of respondents didn’t feel it was right to kick out gay youth going for Eagle who had already spent 10 or 11 years in scouts.

  12. I know of a Scout in our troop who is gay and am happy that he won’t have to hide it any longer. Scouting is a great tradition that I’m a part of as a scout and leader. It is time to accept and understand that life has changed. Just because a child or leader has an alternative sexual orientation does not devalue him as an individual. If Scouting’s values and beliefs are of importance and drive correct behavior – how is it less important for a gay Scout?

    I applaud the move by the BSA to allow gay Scouts. Gay leaders are the next step.

    • Really? Then women and girls should have the same rights as non straight boys and men, sleeping and bathing in the same as the straight right????

  13. Well you have really done it as this family greens we r FINISHED WITH BOY SCOUT i will get rid of all boy scout stuff and will degrade u and u DID NOT FOLLOW THE SCOUT OATH OR LAW YOUR PROMISE IS WORTHLESS AND WE ARÉ FINISHED

    • hmm maybe you should let your scout make the decision to stay or go , isn’t that what scouting teaches them to stand up and make their own choices. Scouting makes our sons strong, there has always been gay scouts, you just didn’t know it.

  14. “This policy change is effective Jan. 1, 2014, allowing the Boy Scouts of America the transition time needed to communicate and implement this policy to its approximately 116,000 Scouting units.”

    116,000 units? I predict by the time January 1, 2014 rolls around there will be about 58,000 -60,000 units, with those remaining units not needing any communication from their national leadership.

    • It’d be a real shame if that comes to pass, because that will mean somewhere north of 200,000 adults decided to throw the baby out with the bathwater and deny the youth they know of the opportunity to participate in one of the great youth programs in the world. The *program* doesn’t change because *who’s allowed to participate* does.

      • David,
        Understand that most of the issues will be with the charter organizations. We already have 3 organizations state they will no longer sponser Scouting if this passes.

    • Nothing to implement with our Unit. Our Charter Organization had already ruled that they will drop the Charter on Jan 1st if the policy passed.

      • Why don’t you see if your CO will start a Royal Ranger Outpost. They are all ready to accept an influx of scouters.

        • Kelly, for those who are not pentecostal in doctrine, Royal Rangers might not be an acceptable alternative. Parents should be aware that the Sixteen Fundamental Truths are embedded in the advancement program of the Royal Rangers, and non-pentecostals may have issues with at least #7 and #8.

        • Karen,

          Your point is understood. I guess there is a choice to be be made in beliefs and doctrines. I wish we could talk outside this forum about it though. There have been more and more non-pentecostals forming Outposts the past few years. BSA has pluses and minuses and RR does as well.

      • You know what they say about opinions. The guide they gave to voters states that all the Scouting regions recommended leaving things as they are – except the Northeast region, which is out of synch with the rest of the country except the Left Coast anyway. My region estimates that nearly 25% of Scouts and units will leave Scouting because of this decision. As the COR of a large Scout unit with over 40 years in Scouting, I can attest that our CO will not be renewing its charter come next February. “Timeless values” should never be placed to a popular vote.

        • The “Timeless value” of not allowing gays to become scouts, was not a policy of the BSA when your unit was chartered 40 years ago. I think they had a “popular vote” to put in that restriction in the 90′s.

        • Brian, sodomy laws made homosexuality effectively a felony in almost every state in the Union until the 1970s, so there was no reason to have a policy against it in place. There was no Golden Age of Homosexual Acceptance in the BSA.

      • BSA’s research has already concluded that membership losses would be 10x more than any potential gains.

    • Is there a unit in this country today that doesn’t know what the vote is. The Pony Express is long dead.

    • I suspect that the return of COs that dropped their units because of the gay ban will more than offset those that drop out now that gay youth are no longer banned.

      • Nope. The religions and Christian denominations that expressly opposed BSA’s policy are very small, except for the UMC, and they never stopped chartering units. Schools, military bases, and other gov’t institutions still can’t charter units because they were forced to stop by an ACLU lawsuit over the religious element of Scouting, not the ban on gays.

        • More BS, Catholics have not drank the Koolaid yet. Mormon’s change their bible as they see fit to suit the culture, I am not surprised.

        • Wow. I can’t believe what Fred Cooper just said about a religion different than his own. Apparently Fred has never heard of the 12th point of the scout law. Nor what Jesus taught in John 8

          It’s very sad to see adults in scouting behave with such intolerance. Baden-Powell would be very sad.

        • I can name two Units in my Council of 59 Units today that will not be re-chartering. I think your bong pipe might be running low if you think no Units will leave by January 1, 2014..

    • “This policy change is effective Jan. 1, 2014, allowing the Boy Scouts of America the transition time needed to communicate and implement this policy to its approximately 116,000 Scouting units.” – I expect by this weekend there won’t be a unit who is not informed. I question the 1Jan date. If you’re making the change, why not now? They are saying a gay Scout can’t get his Eagle today, yet can after Jan 1.

  15. So what happened to listening to the “Voice of the Scout”? AP news reported that 61 percent of the Scouters that responded rejected any policy accepting gays, and yet 61 percent of our representatives voted to accept gays?!?! What is this world coming to? It’s going to Hell in a handbasket and you can’t even get a decent handbasket.

    • It is my understanding that the majority of scouts favored the change. So it was the “Voice of the Scout”, just not the voice of the scouters. Something to be said for a “boy led organization” I had no intention of leaving if the vote went the other way, and I hope all of the dedicated scouters who’s convictions tell them this was not the best for scouting will continue their service to the boys of our nation. Scouting needs all the volunteers it can get, and I hope all will stay and support the organization. The last thing we need is supporters of gay rights to become hypocrites and say we don’t need leaders who disagree with us. Lets be inclusive, open, and respectful of all regardless of their position on this contentious issue.

    • There are all kinds of ways to look at this, John – first, the supermajority didn’t respond to the VOS which, to me, means they didn’t have strong feelings one way or the other. Second, as was mentioned by Brian, most Scouts opposed the current membership policy. Finally, when VOS came out, the focus was on a ‘local option’ which was not the resolution that ended up being presented. The information that was extrapolated from the results regarding support for inclusion for homosexual youth (ie: the questions dealing with denying a boy his Eagle rank only due to his stated sexual orientation) was much higher than the overall support for policy change (local option).

  16. The impact of this decision happens quickly! As Scoutmaster of a Troop of 53 boys I have just been notified that our CO (which has sponsored this Troop for 57 years will not recharter us in 2014). I had read that some faith based chartering organizations may react unfavorably to the vote so I had approached other civic groups in the community as a potential sponsor, in such event. Thus far, I have been advised that this is a political “hot potato” and the answer has been a polite but firm, “thanks but no thanks”. We are the only Troop in the community and unless another sponsor can be found it appears we will be forced to furl our flag. My point is this – the impact goes further than making a personal decision as a leader or a youth as to whether you will remain in scouting or not because of the vote. Some, like my troop may have no choice but to say goodbye, whether we want to or not … now that is indeed a shame!

    • Dramatics not needed. If there is true support for a unit in your community, then you will be chartered. In fact, several years ago our school system opted to not renew the charter of our Cub Scout unit because of Scouting’s policy of discrimination. We formed the “Parents of Pack 10″ and chartered the Pack. Not one scout lost.

      • Rather smug reply there Jeff! We also looked at your suggestion by contacting our local Council. I suppose this may differ between the Councils, but we were advised that while this was allowed several years ago it was not being promoted at this time and we would need a local church or civic organization rather than a “parents group” as a sponsor.

        • It was smug, I suppose. And I’m not surprised really. But I can’t imagine that there isn’t SOME organization that would be thrilled to charter a unit. I don’t know where you live, but it seems like it would have to be pretty narrow-thinking to let something like this stop a great program. I’m really trying to imagine.

        • The United Methodist Church has an Anti-Discrimination Policy. We are chartered by one, and we were informed that they would not renew our charter until the results of this vote. As I understand it, they will now renew. Or try Unity or Unitarian Universalist. United Church of Christ. These all value non-discrimination. And there are more.

        • That’s why people don’t go to church anymore, Jeff: When a “church” values popularity over moral values, there’s no point in going. The whole point of a church is to teach right and wrong in a moral context; i.e., to discriminate between good and not good. A church that preaches “non-discrimination” in a moral context like this is just a Sunday morning social club.

        • Bob,

          I don’t go to church to learn right from wrong. I go to get closer to God. I find that when I am in a place of judging others as wrong, then I am moving away from God. For instance, I don’t find your opinions wrong. You are perfectly free to have them. I strongly disagree with you – as you apparently disagree with me. But I don’t need to call you wrong.

          God bless you.

      • Schools are not an option whether they want to be or not. From 1999-2004 the ACLU sued Chicago Public Schools, Housing and Urban Dev., and the military for sponsoring BSA units due to the requirement that a scout swear an oath to do their “duty to God.” They all settled, and BSA simply stopped chartering units to gov’t institutions. Your unit would have been moving regardless of its own opinion on BSA policy because BSA would not have rechartered it to a school after 2004.
        Most of those units went to churches, some went to “friends of XXX” or “parents of XXX” groups, and some went to civic clubs like VFW. However, as Mark pointed out, BSA is moving away from those friends/parents of XXX groups.

    • Why don’t you see if your CO will start a Royal Ranger Outpost. They are all ready to accept an influx of scouters.

      • Thank you for the suggestion Kelly. I am sure we will examine other avenues. At the moment we are taken aback be the loss of such a long time association that appears to have perished by actions that the Troop or its leaders have no control. No offense to the Royal Rangers, they are a fine organization, but our hearts remain with the BSA … although it is becoming quite a challenge!

        • Mark,
          Just letting people know there are other venues out there. I am finding it hard to leave as well. I have worked with both groups and like them both for different reasons. I have heard through the grapevine that there are a number of scouters starting their own scouting group soon outside of the BSA.

    • And the Charter Orginazation owns all funds and equipment and can keep that equipment and funds should they so desire.
      I am against the propaganda of homosexaulity. Good luck.

    • 57 years ago BSA did not ban gay boys from membership, yet your CO did not have a problem with BSA. I suspect if BSA never made the change in the 90′s, we would not have tis problem now. Divisiveness breeds divisiveness, a good lesson to remember. I would hope there is an organization that will look beyond this issue to the true core values of scouting. If not, perhaps the parents of your troop who have the most skin in the game may want to think about forming an organization to charter the troop.

      • The CO *is* looking at the core value of scouting, unlike the BSA at large. That’s why they’re not going to recharter the troop, no doubt. The troop, if it follows the new BSA down the rainbow path, will no longer be faithful to core scouting principles and shouldn’t be rechartered.

    • Per this page on the official BSA website there are over 3000 “Groups of Citizens” supporting over 100k Scouts. Mark, you may want to have the discussion with someone else in the Council about the viability of this option. I’ve been researching options too based on the expectation that our CO will also not recharter. Keep trying and ask the Scouts for their ideas too. Groups are more likely to listen to the kids.

      • They should have left well enough alone in the ’80s/’90s instead of listening to the radical conservatives spurred on by the so-called “Moral Majority”. The BSA had lived with no specific statement about sexuality until then and no one was worried about the sky falling.

        • Are you kidding me?! Conservatives caused this mess?! This ain’t nuthin’ but homosexuals “gettin’ down with the program.” If homosexuals activists had left BSA alone and not forced the organization to accept sexually confused children raised by progressive or absentee adults, we would not be here today., .

        • I think it’s hard to deny that conservative elements forced their interpretation of “moral” into an explicit statement about homosexuality by the BSA in the late ’80s/early ’90s where before there had not been one.

          About the same proportion of gay Scouts & leaders have been around for a long time, they’ve just stayed hidden because of social pressures. You’re kidding yourself if you think they just showed up now to cause trouble.

        • Although Id not believe your statement that homosexual Adults and Scouts have always infiltrated the organization, it always worked for me. I have never seen or heard of a homosexual Scout in Scouting, OA or Jamboree, If they can that well, I like that policy. It certainly kept sexuality out of Scouting and must have worked for the homosexuals, but obviously it did not, because homosexuals want to be in my face and indoctrinate young children to accept deviant behavior as normal. Sorry, not in this house.

        • Has anyone ever told you you are crazy? Because you are. There is no homosexual agenda that indoctrinates anyone in anyway of life. If you think so, you are a fool. I apologize for being so unscoutlike, but you’ve been spewing nonsense upon nonsense for post after post. You are sound like some 78 year old bigot that believes whatever BS comes out of Fox News or Rush Limbaugh’s mouth. If you stuck around scouting, you would see that nothing has changed. There are no flaming armies of homosexuals marching around with pink neckerchiefs recruiting people to a gay lifestyle. What we’ll have are people lashing monkey bridges, hiking into the backwoods and gathering around campfires and telling stories under the stars. Same as it ever was.

        • Somehow I missed this diatribe until Tani high-fived ole db:

          “Has anyone ever told you you are crazy? Because you are. There is no homosexual agenda that indoctrinates anyone in anyway of life. If you think so, you are a fool.”

          db loves that name-calling. I think public school curriculum like “gender bender day” day that was in the news today spikes your little hissy-fit.

          “I apologize for being so unscoutlike, but you’ve been spewing nonsense upon nonsense for post after post.”

          I don’t expect you to be Scoutlike. I’ve seen your posts.

          “You are sound like some 78 year old bigot that believes whatever BS comes out of Fox News or Rush Limbaugh’s mouth. If you stuck around scouting, you would see that nothing has changed. There are no flaming armies of homosexuals marching around with pink neckerchiefs recruiting people to a gay lifestyle.”

          I have no idea what you’re talking about and neither do you since I have not referenced any of the sources you mentioned and you are spouting the expected name-calling and party line of your ilk. You sound like a spoiled 12 year old.

          “What we’ll have are people lashing monkey bridges, hiking into the backwoods and gathering around campfires and telling stories under the stars. Same as it ever was.”

          You keep singing Kumbaya around the Campfire with homosexual Scouts if that is what turns you on. Wait, maybe your parents were from the late 60′s and your upbringing involved counter-culture nonsense. That would explain a lot.

  17. Im really concerned about this vote because as a leader, a parent, & most importantly a Christian we are based upon serving God & our country! Im afraid that this is only going to be the beginning of the changes because next it will be that we are forcing religion on someone & then we won’t be aloud to mention God at all!

      • The God in Heaven! yes i welcome all to churchthis is what’s wrong with our country but this is about young boys now! Homosexuality is a sin & in God’s eyes its the same as murder! i don’t hate anyone who says they are gay but i hate the sin in their life & i pray that they change their ways before its too late! This is what’s wrong with our country now is that not many are following the Ten Commandments anymore or they are too afraid to stand up against what’s wrong! God bless! Jesus loves you!!!!

        • So yourgod says it’s just as big a sin for me to kiss a guy as to kill him? Doesn’t sound like the same God I know and love.

        • And the same language in Leviticus disallowing one to “lie with a man as one would with a woman” also disallows pork and blending of fabrics. Actually, the prohibition against unclean foods is a lot stronger.

          More important than all of these is a prohibition against lighting fires on Saturday. If we are going to follow the teachings of Leviticus, I suggest that we do not discriminate and follow all 613 commandments.

        • Stick with the New Testament and spike the straw man argument made here. It is very cleat in the New Testament which Jesus brought to us that homosexuality is a sin and abomination to Mankind.

          You’re obviously not a Christian so I don’t know why you’re attacking a Christian for their beliefs.

        • Fred, you can limit yourself to the New Testament, but many do not view it as the only acceptable text.

          Not all Christians have discarded the Old Testament (as it appears that you have), nor is that the only other religious text. We in the BSA respect the rights of others to follow the teachings of their faith, whether found in the New Testament, the Old Testament, the Koran, or somewhere else.

        • He’s following the teaching of his faith with a reasonable position. Why are you attacking him? and me for that matter.

          Its his truth and mine. You can have yours.

        • Fred, sadly your position seems at odds with your statement. I certainly respect your right to have the truths of your faith. What I am attacking is your insistence that if I want to be part of the BSA, I have to follow them.

        • No, you and I have to follow BSA rules which were just changed to allow openly homosexual children in Scouting. The poster and I both diagree with the revised policy and see it as an abomination. We’re not asking you to do anything. Where do you see that requirement from either one one us. Its a patently false premise on your part. Be honest when you post. We have our opinions and will continue to speak them. Are you saying that since BSa changed the Policy we should not speak in such a manner anymore like the deluge of pro-homosexual posters prior to the vote on this blog?

          Get real, Man! Its a blog. BSA sets policy, not you or I.

        • Fred, I am glad you recognize that the BSA, acting institutionally, sets policy. I respect that you disagree with this policy change. I don’t think you are immoral. Do you respect that I disagreed with the prior policy and that I am not immoral either?

        • I do not know you and can make no moral observations of you. Supporting a policy of accepting homosexual children does not make you immoral.

          If a person is a practicing homosexual, bi-sexual person or an adulterer, that person is immoral. If a person lacks ethics or is a liar, that person is immoral. You have not indicated you are any of those. I would not assume without proof. However, if a person says they take pleasure in homosexual thoughts, then yes, I would say that person cannot be morally straight. That is why I do not support the revised policy.

        • Now I see where you went off the track. What you mean by “morally straight” is not the meaning with which the BSA uses that term (and has since 1913, more or less).

        • Why don’t you provide your 1913 definition of “morally straight” so we can get a good look at it. I’ve seen what you folks put out there before but I would like to see it from you.

        • I don’t have to go back that far to make the point: The Boy Scout Handbook (11th ed.) explains “morally straight” as “To be a person of strong character, your relationships with others should be honest and open. You should respect and defend the rights of all people. Be clean in your speech and actions, and remain faithful in your religious beliefs. The values you practice as a Scout will help you shape a life of virtue and self-reliance.”

      • Poor April…..She is too stupid to know that the BSA is open to more than just Christians……

        • Poor Bob, his last name is the part of his brain where him moral compass resides.

        • Fred, you are a HYPOCRITE, belittling people for their beliefs shows how truly narrow minded you are. FREEDOM OF SPEECH. If my children were in your troop I would remove them just because of you MORALLY STRAIGHT means you live the good way in life and treat people fairly which CLEARLY YOU DO NOT. You leaving scouting will be no great loss. I am sure as a young man you were not ALWAYS MORALLY STRAIGHT, I am sure you did as many young teenage boys did with magazines etc. Just because a child feels they are gay does not mean they have no morals, they are just different then yours. Not everyone is perfect, not even you, the only real judge in my life is god, and he believes equality for all his children.

        • Okay Tani , where is the hypocrisy? More name calling but you folks have made my skin thick just to get past the name-calling.

          If your children are homosexual, they would not be the Troop because current policy does not allow it. So you would find a Scouting Unit that defies Scout Policy? That’s rich and illuminating.

          As a young man, I was immature and made mistakes and wished I had quality adult leaders who would help me to grow by teaching character and moral principles, not teaching me to be a sexual deviant or encouraging me to express that such behavior is normal. Do your sons play games with girls and boys in magazines. I did not, real girls were far more interesting. Sounds like there’s a fantasy issue for you somewhere.

          I am far from perfect. I am a sInner saved by Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. There is a big “G” God in my life. I surpasses anything BSA can offer and that is why leaving is because BSA no longer follows biblical principle.

          Who is your little “g” god. I have told you mine, I think it is a fair question. I will not comment on it. It is your personal faith but it might help me to understand your rage at a differing opinion. CAPS means screaming in my face.

        • Fred if my children are gay then so be it, I have more issues in scouting from straight boys being to grabby with others and do express concerns to my fellow leaders, and a IMMEDIATE RESOLUTION happens. that is what leaders do is take care of all the boys in scouts in a fair manner. I have no issues with my sexuality, I am sexually straight, and a woman that doesn’t mean I was not a good leader from tigers through weeblos, But if you can make bad decisions as a young adult and correct or learn from them, then why are you so upset if someone makes a decision that you did not. Just because a boy is gay does not mean they will try to recruit homosexuality within the boy scouts.

        • I never said they were recruiting other boys. I do believe homosexual boys are a bad moral example to be in a Troop of young boys. BSA forcing through a decision to a captured audience will not change my position. Unlike many other Scouters who will force down this decision for the “good of Scouting” even though they disagree with it, I am losing respect for them. Scouting is not that important to me.

  18. I do not personally agree with the change but will support it. I don’t not think much will change. I know several gay people and they would not even think about being part of scouting. The outdoors activities are not anything they like or want some thing to do with.

    • I have attended many “Eagle” Ceremonies & have sat on & “Chaired” may BOR’s as well. Will the “Eagle Scout Charge” be ammended to include a statement that they will no longer be expected to continue and serve Scouting as an Adult?

      • To Bill Sharp: there is no official Eagle Scout Oath. That’s just something someone made up to create a more solemn ceremony. You won’t find an Eagle Scout Oath in the handbook. So yes – go ahead and change it to your liking.

        • db is correct. The Eagle Scout Charge is just an optional ceremonial add-on for COR’s. The underlying tenets for Scouts of all ranks are the basic Scout Oath and Law.

          BTW, while Eagle is a desirable goal for all Scouts, advancement is just one of the eight methods of Scouting. The primary goal of Scouting is to get kids to become First Class in about one year, so they stay in the program for three years and thus have the Oath and Law inculcated in their behavior as “useful citizens”. We don’t regard the 98% of Scouts who don’t achieve Eagle as failures.

  19. If parents pull there children from this organization for this they must have small minds, Every child that wants to be a scout should be able to join their respective scout group. Scouts are not in scouting to have sex they are in scouting to learn and grow as a person, with new and better skills and awesome adventures. Antone having sex in scouting is removed from the group – so what are you people afraid of ?? That your sons will meet new people with different views then themselves? There are more things to worry about in life then allowing young adults who may or may not know their own life choices to learn to grow as a person and gain skills needed to form a successful life. I had gay friends in grammar school in the 70′s and I am straight, no one ever tried to convert me and some have proven very good friends, my children know people with 2 moms or 2 dads, people are good or bad it has nothing to do with their sexuality. I would much rather my children grow to know there are different views and ways to live then have them be afraid of someone because they are different in some way. The true tragedy is that people try to be intelligent and cannot spell or use the proper words to make their points but still comment and they have such a closed mind to expect people to all be the same without realization that life is about choices, decisions and adjustments, learn to take people for who they are and not their sexual choices.

    • Your reply is total BS. I raised my children to respect every person and who they are but to recognize immorality and indulgent behavior such as homosexuality. They have friends of all colors and habits but would never enable homosexual or promiscuous heterosexual behavior in any person of any gender. it seems you would teach your children hat such behavior is right as rain. what a disservice you are to your children.

      • Immoral no – My children are good students and have made it all the way through cub scouts to become boy scouts last month. I am a single mom who has been mom and dad to them for over the past 10 years. I do not do drugs, have multiple boyfriends, or drink. I teach my children to give respect to all and ignore those who do not return it. Teaching my children to accept what they cannot control – really that is a disservice? I think not I think its a service to make them stronger. Any disservice to my children have come from their dad whose chose beer over them. I teach my kids to accept people for who they are not what they are or their views or color of their skin. I believe that will be the best service I as a parent can give them to face life not afraid and willing to accept what is ahead and be strong enough to keep to their own beliefs

        • I certainly see how you came to your conclusions and how you teach your children. i see it every day in the Daycare I oversee and the issues single mom’s deal with. You cannot be a Mom and Dad as hard as you try and that is not a slight. I disagree with you but understand how you came to be where you are. My comment stands.

    • Tani: Your comment is insulting. I am an attorney and a registered leader with the Pack & Troop in our community. I will no longer volunteer and my son can no longer be part of this new organization. Whether you admit it or not, this is a new organization. This new organization will be fraught with danger from rabid homosexual groups looking for a payday from CO’s that do not follow this new directive. Actually you are small minded if you continue your affiliation if it is in an official capacity. The lawyers are comming and the BSA will not be there to cover you when the judgment come down. Be afraid.

      • The only lawyers I’m concerned about coming after Scouting, or me as a registered leader, are those that will sue because we’re somehow infringing on their “rights” to a Scout Troop where they can be assured that “teh gayz” are not going to be somehow allowed to indoctrinate their children.

        The same Supreme Court decision that let the BSA, as a private organisation, have a policy that excludes people also protects their right to change to policy to *not* exclude people.

  20. Have you read the USA Today article In Good We Trust? “Good Boy Scouts Don’t Need God,” . It appears that the atheists already have a plan to add another “o” to God’s name, making it read Good. Getting rid of God will probably also be coming up for a vote in the future once their focused activists become involved to make Boy Scouts more of an “all-inclusive” organization. There is a group at Contact@OnMyHonor.Net that is working on a new Scouting group that will actually have moral values.

      • Ronald, it’s hard to tell via computer, but you are being sarcastic right?! Because if BSA actually stood for “timeless values”, none of us would be here having this discussion now would we. We do not live in a society of ‘timeless values’, they are considered to be ‘old fashioned’, ‘outdated’, ‘discriminatory’ and the list goes on.

      • Ronald: Yes and one just got flushed down the drain. Whats stopping the weak sheep at the top of thos once great organization to flushing another one or two down the drain? Nothing I can see.

    • Thanks for the tip, Debbie. I look forward to hearing what they come up with in Kentucky next month. Scouting and core scouting values will survive with or without the moral cowards of the BSA national committee.

  21. Well at least it doesn’t ‘officially’ go into effect until 2014, so my family can tie up our loose ends before we leave. We won’t be rechartered anyhow (thank God!) Grateful we did not support FOS with the pending vote.

    I would offer to any Catholic scouts to seek out (if your parish does not have one) your local Knights of Columbus – Columbian Squires program. It is similar to scouting as it is based on service to others, advancements and FUN! All our boys have enjoyed participating in both programs and look forward to continued participation in the Squires.

    http://www.kofc.org/un/en/squires/index.html

      • Curious (not really) why you would care Bob? Fishing for an argument perhaps? Best of luck with your new policy – God bless!!

        When your mind is perverted you see and interpret everything through that perverted prism. Everything. Even God.
        - DL Foster

        • Naw,

          Just entertained by the thought of someone taking the moral high road, yet pausing long enough to earn its most sought after award before they leave.

        • Bob, even if some scouts do that, who cares, they will have earned it. Why do you think they pushed so hard to get the gays forced into BSA rather then start their own scouting program OR join the scouting program that already accepts/wants them? THEY want that prestigious Eagle too, it means something (for now). I will support the boys in our troop that want to do that – if they’ve come this far, let them finish it they deserve it. It’s not the youth’s fault this is happening. I simply meant we (my husband and I) are committee members, and our youth also are holding positions so they can see them through until fall.

    • Since you are planning on hanging around thru ’13, may want to wait to see how nccs weighs in on the issue:
      REACTION TO POLICY CHANGE IN
      MEMBERSHIP STANDARDS FOR THE BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA
      National Catholic Committee on Scouting
      Thursday, May 23, 2014@ 5:48 PM
      For over 100 years, thousands of children in Catholic parishes, schools and fraternal organizations have benefited from chartering Scouting units. The Catholic Church has maintained a strong relationship with the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) through the National Catholic Committee on Scouting (NCCS) for many years and we hope to maintain that relationship.

      Today, the voting members of the BSA voted to change the membership standards for its youth members. The BSA proposed in its resolution that “no youth may be denied membership in the Boy Scouts of America on the basis of sexual orientation or preference alone.” Its membership standards for adult leaders remain unchanged.

      The Catholic Church teaches that people who experience a homosexual inclination or a same sex attraction are to be treated with respect recognizing the dignity of all persons. The Church’s teaching is clear that engaging in sexual activity outside of marriage is immoral. Individuals who are open and avowed homosexuals promoting and engaging in homosexual conduct are not living lives consistent with Catholic teaching.

      Since the change in policy will not take effect until January 1, 2014, the National Catholic Committee on Scouting has adequate time to study its effects. The NCCS will determine how it may impact Catholic chartered Scout units and activities. In doing so, we will work within the teachings of our Catholic Faith and with the various local bishops and their diocesan scouting committees.

      Ed Martin- National Chair
      Father Michael Hanifin-National Chaplain

      • I do not need the church to tell me what I know is right and wrong. We have values and do not compromise them. Thank you though for sharing and thinking that would be a game changer for us. I know that statement will make a difference for some, just not us. God bless!

        • Your own parish would allow a gay guy to participate in church life, I don’t see why you’d leave your troop for BSA doing the same thing.

        • First, the church will not allow actively practicing gays – their job is that of Jesus Christ, to help the sinners repent not condone them or the old ‘if you can’t beat em join em’ theory. They (our CO) already told us if this is how the vote went they would not recharter us. Either way, like I’ve stated – we take our values from scripture not the church. My boys decided that if this resolution was passed they no longer felt comfortable participating in scouts, it is my job as a parent to respect and support their choice on this matter. This decision was not made lightly, we have prayed on this matter since it began. If their hearts have not been changed then I LOVE and SUPPORT the men they are becoming. To hold to their values because they are right and NOT change because the ‘popular’ thing to do is go with the crowd. Be clear, we are not hateful to those who choose this lifestyle, we pray for them, we know God loves the sinner but hates the sin, as do we. It does not mean we need to stand by as BSA throws away timeless traditions. Thank you for posing your comment very politely – I appreciate that. God bless!!

        • This timeless tradition you speak of has a time, I think it was 1992(give or take a year or so). When I was a scout in the 60′s, BSA did not pick this as one of the few “moral failings” that was spelled out as incompatible with scouting. Now we are simply going back to the time when we “loved the sinner” if that is how you view homosexuality, but did not exclude them from our organization. Scouting is now no longer in the business of judging sexuality. I’m truly sad to hear that your boys will no longer benefit from all that scouting has to offer. I sincerely doubt that there will be many troops that notice a change after the decision. Scouting is not saying that homosexuality is good, they are just not saying it is bad. Your boys have their values. If your boys stay in scouting will this change their values? If the church says they are OK with gays in scouting, will you leave the church? I know this is a tough decision, and you have prayed for God’s guidance. May His grace guide you.

        • Thank you Brian, you comments are polite and respectful. To be clear, yes I would leave the church if it changed it’s views on many things including (not limited to) homosexuality, because we follow scripture NOT just a church that is run by ‘man’ (who is fallible). Luckily my church does not sway with society’s views of what is ‘acceptable now’ – that is why I along with 1000+ families belong to it. We are not your typical Catholics (not all Catholic churches are created equal) and I am VERY proud to drive an hour each way to belong/participate with our particular congregation!

          As for you statement, “Scouting is not saying that homosexuality is good, they are just not saying it is bad.” Even an Atheist has a distinction between something that is ‘good’ and something that is ‘bad’. So again, I believe Scouting has in fact severed whatever tie they had left to values and morals. “Timeless” by definition states: not affected by time : ageless. Clearly BSA has been affected by time – or at least ‘the times’, they were to afraid to say “Hey, it’s okay to stay true to ourselves past, present and future.”

          As for my scouts and their values, here is their response when I asked them (when this all started) how they would feel if BSA changed: “Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.”- Augustine of Hippo. “We will choose what we know is right, it’s tough making the right decision it’s not always the popular one but it is still the ‘right’ one” (paraphrased)

        • Good luck to you and your boys. I’m well aware that all Catholic Churches are not the same. My parish while much different from yours is also quite large and often misunderstood by other Catholics. Scouting will miss you

        • @ScoutMommaX3 –
          I encourage you to read the BSA’s information in full. It is not at all clear to me that the new policy allows gay Scouts who are sexually active. It, as I read it, addresses same-sex attraction only. It says:
          > We are unaware of any major religious chartered organization that believes a youth member simply stating he or she is attracted to the same sex, but not engaging in sexual activity, should make him or her unwelcome in their congregation.
          > This proposal reinforces Scouting’s belief that sexual conduct by any Scout, heterosexual or homosexual, is contrary to the virtues of Scouting and is reflective of the beliefs of most of our major religious chartered organizations.
          > While, if this resolution is passed, no youth may be denied membership in the Boy Scouts of America on the basis of stating their sexual orientation ALONE, Scouting expects appropriate behavior from all members, which includes sexual conduct, regardless of sexual orientation.
          > Membership in any program of the Boy Scouts of America requires the youth member to subscribe to and abide by the values expressed in the Scout Oath and Scout Law…

    • Thanks for the tip, ScoutMomma. We’ve been considering the Catholic Church’s offer of reconciliation with Episcopalians who were abandoned by their “church” much as the BSA has done. This would be one more good reason to do so.

        • Thanks, ScoutMomma. I am still concerned that the Catholic Church sometimes seems more concerned with pomp, circumstance, and regalia than with God but they are, still, one of the few rocks still standing against the modern maelstrom as more and more moral bastions, like BSA, fail.

      • Bob, I just wanted to say if you are seriously considering a conversion get your hands on some Catholic literature on WHY we do what we do. The Catechism of the Catholic Church is the best resource by far. However it is large so it scares most people (even most Catholics) from reading it. I personally love it. Regardless there are other resources out there on the ‘why’s’ of the Catholic church and even if you decided not to join you would definitely have more insight to the Catholic faith. God bless you!

    • Boy Scouts is about Character Education and teaching moral principles. That by its definition, requiring testing of skills and learning as does outdoor skills. Don’t hide behind the “judging” whimper and whine.

        • I ma aware that BSA until just now has said “Homosexuality is incompatible with Scouting” wink wink, nod, nod ;)

          We need to get that pesky “morally straight” out of there. Too judgmental.

        • My understanding is that “morally straight” includes a variety of concepts. Since BSA’s Oath recites, “On my honor- I will do my duty to God and my country…” I am assuming that being morally straight has implications that point back to God’s laws and basis for morality. It may not be your morality…but it is the basis for my family.

  22. The Girl Scouts have accepted gay adults and it is
    NO BIG DEAL. It’s only an issue if you make it an issue!

    • Have you looked at the membership for Gil Scouts over the age of about 12? GSUSA struggle to keep it’s membership beyond Brownies. They have tried numerous programs – Studio 2B, Journeys, etc to try to keep girls longer. Do a little search on the web and there’s a lot of young women encourage other girls to join Venturing instead as it has better programming. The point is that Girl Scouting is not really dealing with the issue – they pay kind of a lip service while ignoring it.
      FYI, for those who think these concerns are not valid, feel free to look around. There are plenty of people sharing their experiences at Scout Camps – here’s a few: http://www.scoutofthecloset.blogspot.com/.
      Talking about Scouts not experimenting etc at camp is denying what everyone knows. How many of these were not necessarily welcome experiences?

      • This is no NEW phenomenom! I was a Girl Scout until I acheived the Gold Award; the Girl Scouts highest acheivement. Just like boys who leave Scouts as they get older, Girl Scouts have to compete with other organized activities and the increased academic demands of a high school education. My daughter and her peers were in Girl Scouts until middle school. She and her fellow Scoutmates wanted to try other activities that neither Girl Scouts nor Venture Crew offered. Additionally, my daughter went to an elite private high school which required she play a sport. Participation in a high school sport entails the player commit to before and after school practices as well as games. Add on the academic load…no time for anything else!

  23. This should not have been accepted simply because boy scouts is for BOYS not girls or any that act or think as a girl.. This is why their are not girls going camping in the same tents and such as the boys .. There is no discrimination against anyone, not girls or non straight… its just boy scouts is for boys and girl scouts for girls .. how it should be.

  24. Your argument is total BS. Immoral sexual behavior has NOTHING to compare it to black people’s fight for civil rights. ridiculous.

  25. Hold the phone on this one, Kevin! You say that, “70% of Charter Oraganizations are faith based sponsors. Of that number, 25% are Mormon, who approved of the measure. This means, that approximately 40% of units will not be rechartered by their current sponsors” What makes you think that all faith-based COs aside from LDS will drop their units?? The UCC, UUA, Reform Judiasm, Episcopalian, and some Presbyterian churches fully include homosexual members in their faith. UMC is more fractured and will likely be on a church by church basisbut I hope the UMM will come out in support of this change. The statement I saw posted here from the Catholic church seems like they are at least probable to stay. Certainly there will be some faith-based units that will lose their CO, but to state that all less LDS will drop is patently false!

  26. Sad day for America ! How can I encourage my three sons to stand couragously against the tides of our culture when the leadership of BSA (the organization our whole family is involved in) just caved into peer pressure on the basis of revenue. It would have been better to implode with integrity than prosper in the embrasing of immorality. Sin is sin. Deviance is deviance. Aberant is still aberant. Shame on the Boy Scouts of America – you have caused more harm by this one decision… and it will bear fruits for years to come. Better that a millstone were hung around your neck.

    • Kelly Thank you for such a true and profound statement. Homosexuality has never been fully evaluated to its exceptance into society. I have to admit homosexuality has become more excepted in society but excepting its activity will forever be in question by people of faith and moral values. You cannot solve discrimination by discriminating. Lifting the ban on Youth Scouts and not including the adult homosexuals is certainly discrimination and if an adult homosexual goes to Court he will win and in the near future the 1400 BSA delegates will be back to vote again on this issue. Sincerely Trenton Spears

  27. I think it is fantastic, unfortunately it did not go far enough. Before you jump to conclusions, no I am NOT gay. I am married 21 years and have 2 kids. I grew up in scouting in the Midwest and NEVER even thought about this issue as a Scout. I’m sure some of the other Scouts in my Troop were gay and in hindsight my ASMs could have been also, but you know what….. As the non-gay members did NOT discuss or practice their sexuality in Scouting, neither did the gay ones. It NEVER came up -EVER.

    My son is now a Life Scout and I am proud of his acceptance to anyone who wishes to participate. It is really a non-issue to the Scouts. Unfortunately the Brad Carter problem seems to be with he parents an other Adult leaders whom can’t get overthrew tat On my way! People are different -no it is NOT a choice.

    To hold so much hate against someone different than yourself and to try to call it “religious beliefs” is a joke. As I recall Jesus accepted EVERYONE! (I myself am not a religious follower)

    For those COs that choose to disband a Troop – good riddance you are not teaching anything positive to the young Scouts and how to exist in the world today. I just hope they don’t become as hateful as the adults who run their programs.

    I will happily stay involved in the program and invite anyone and everyone who would like to be a Scout or Scout Leader to do so.

    Maxx K.

    • You obviously never read or adhered to the “morally straight” part, right? Why did you even join an organization if you didn’t agree with its stated values? If you’re happy with this change, you joined the organization under false pretenses.

    • I send a homosexual advocate posting this with no courage as demonstrated by the name and much hated spewed from teh shadows for those who do not agree with the homosexual lifestyle.

        • Then you are a brainwashed activist Sir, and I am sorry that you cannot accept opinions which do not reflect your worldview and have to resort to name calling and labeling to have a conversation, but that is what I have come to expect from progressives with no substance to their argument.

        • Fred, I respect your right to your opinion. My experience with people who hold opinions similar to those you’ve expressed here and on the earlier posting about the policy is that they, as a group, think other opinions should be denied expression and/or shouted down. I am not denying you your right to express yourself, I’m just responding with a different opinion.

          It’s similar to what scientists have found out about the Africanized bees.- they hatch earlier and kill the non-Africanized bees to reduce competition. I see, perhaps mistakenly, the same process happening in this debate in Scouting.

          I’m perfectly willing to live in a Scouting unit with people who dislike the homosexual “lifestyle” (a bad term for this since it implies choice but I don’t know a better one), but the people I’m referring to are willing to destroy their units in order to not have to do the same.

          Homophobe is a word that means “a person who fears or hates homosexuals and homosexuality”. There certainly seems to be a lot of fear of homosexuals in the responses I’ve seen here and in several other places, and fear leads to anger and hate.

          I’m not brainwashed – believe me, I prayed long and hard when this question came up before my church. That prayer and consideration led me to where I am now.

        • You must admit I am certainly not shouting you down. I am defending my position on a bad policy in Scouting. I don’t hate anyone and “homophobe” as you say connotes hatred of people who choose to engage non-reproductive same-sex sexual activity. You sai I and the other poster hate whuch is what homosexual activists do. Where am I wrong?

        • These so-called “homosexual activists” aren’t saying “get out of our house.” They’re saying “we’d like at seat at the table, please.” There’s a difference even if you can’t or won’t see it.

        • I understand perfectly. What you fail to understand is that I do not think they deserve a seat at the table.

        • Fred said “I understand perfectly. What you fail to understand is that I do not think they deserve a seat at the table.”

          No Fred, we understand perfectly that you are hateful. What you fail to understand is that we believe in the inherent worth and dignity of every person.

        • There you go with name-calling again. How do you get through the day seeing hate at every turn. Anyone who disagrees with you hates you. Why is it hate? Can you even explain that? Are you crazy?!

          Hate has noting to do with and you lost credibility as soon as you make an indefensible claim. How is it hate. What is hate to you? Did Romney hate Obama? Did Obama hate the House Speaker. Why does your argument have to involve hate?

        • You don’t think they deserve a seat at the table… Why do you feel it is your place to sit in judgement of other people?

        • Scouting policy says so until this new abomination takes place in January Beth. DO you not follow the rules you do not like of any organization you join?

          Absent that, I have posted at least 1,000 times that there is not conclusive proof from Scientists spending billions of private and public money that homosexuality can be scientifically proven to be genetically unavoidable. It is a non-reproductive sexual act to satisfy a sexual meed in no more than 6% of the population. The genetic markers and biological soup described by pro-homosexual Scientists certainly prove tendencies but there are tendencies for all types of sexual misconduct. Adulterers being the one most acted upon by heterosexuals who can’t commit to a loving, caring relationship in marriage the way God intended.

          Like I also said a 1,000 times before, I believe it is immoral behavior. for adults and has no place in Scouting as adulterers, liars and thieves have no place in Scouting. I think children are influenced by their parents, guardians or other family to acto on homosexual tendencies or created a persona based o homosexuality where no tendencies would otherwise exist or be acted on. I do not believe a child is mature enought to know they like boys sexually, romantically inclined to the same gender or think they were born with the wrong genetic parts without a little encouragement from an adult mentor in their lives. Or as has been proved many times, they were molested as a child.

        • Fred, Scouting policy also says that they don’t ask, and don’t expect that anyone will. The idea is, that if you keep it to yourself, it’s ok. Why should a gay scout have to keep it to himself? Straight scouts don’t have to…

        • Is it not true that sexuality has no place in Scouting and no Scout should discuss it?

          Are your heterosexual Scouts talking sexuality in meetings? You have a problem. They sure do not in mine. It has no place.

          Homosexuality now has an open acceptance in Scouting. You can check that box and tell your friends. As many of you say, its just like having blond hair. Being “out” is part of being homosexual, right? Why would it not be obvious to everyone around. The straight Scout who dislikes homosexuality will now be counseled and punished for being intolerant. Don’t you think that will be the norm? How will it not be handled that way by an organization that produces more training material than any other organization is the world.

          Be prepared to Homosexuality awareness merit badge and a section in Adult training and a half-day in Wood Badge with annual updates required on-line to be a leader.

          .If you’ve been Scouting a few years you know its true. They extract money better than any organization I have ever been a part of in my life.

        • No, Fred, I don’t have a problem. Scouts aren’t talking about sex in meetings. But other Scouts do know who is dating who, who is going to a dance with who, and so on. They don’t live in a vacuum when they are at scouts. They go to school together, as well. Gay kids should be allowed to live their lives the same as anyone else, and not be kicked out of an organization that they have been involved in since the first grade, and come to love in that time. That doesn’t mean that we bring sex into scouting. It stays at the door, same as it always has.

        • I refer you to my post to Tani where avoiding bad (immoral and unprincipled) people is both secular and biblical. No one has a right to pass through life without criticism or correction of bad behavior and positive mentoring to follow a high moral code. Its part of life, even a child’s life.

      • I think it’s interesting that this discussioni always ends with those supporting homosexual inclusion resporting to accusing those not supporting it of hatred, bigotry, homophobia, etc. Yet there is never a willingness to unemotionally discuss the concerns. It seems more as if the idea is to misdirect rather than have a reasonable discussion – ad hominen and red herring fallacies designed to change the discussion.

      • How about a deal, Bob – you stop calling people who disagree with you “homophobes,” and they won’t call you a “homophile.”

Join the conversation

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s