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Boy Scouts to continue review of membership policy, take action at May meeting

The Boy Scouts of America’s executive board has directed committees to continue an exhaustive review of the BSA’s policy barring gays and lesbians from the program. The approximately 1,400 voting members of the national council will take action on the resolution at the national meeting in May 2013 in Grapevine, Texas.

Please read the full text of the BSA’s release:

For 103 years, the Boy Scouts of America has been a part of the fabric of this nation, providing it’s youth program of character development and values-based leadership training.   In the past two weeks, Scouting has received an outpouring of feedback from the American public. It reinforces how deeply people care about Scouting and how passionate they are about the organization.

After careful consideration and extensive dialogue within the Scouting family, along with comments from those outside the organization, the volunteer officers of the Boy Scouts of America’s National Executive Board concluded that due to the complexity of this issue, the organization needs time for a more deliberate review of its membership policy.

To that end, the executive board directed its committees to further engage representatives of Scouting’s membership and listen to their perspectives and concerns.  This will assist the officers’ work on a resolution on membership standards. The approximately 1,400 voting members of the national council will take action on the resolution at the national meeting in May 2013.

View the PDF of the release at this link.

506 thoughts on “Boy Scouts to continue review of membership policy, take action at May meeting

  1. It is not like these people are going to be having sex at scouting events. Gay people are not going because we choose to ignore them. Do they not love and have families and children like the rest of us? We can’t change and control people just because you don’t agree with their lifestyle. We should pray for them and look inward at our own short comings. We are not all so different.

    • It is not like these people are going to be having sex at scouting events.

      Sad Bill, gay men have sex in public restrooms, in parked cars at interstate rest stops, in locker rooms etc. Heck, summer camp will be like Club Med for them. All homosexual sex is, is lust plain and simple. If it wasn’t they would not approach heterosexual men and boys.

      • Straight people also have sex in public restrooms, in parked cars at interstate rest stops, in locker rooms etc. And I’m sure there are stories of straight male and female leaders hooking-up on Scouting events. Heck, the BSA even allows married couples to share tents on Scouting events.

        You seem to assume that all gay people completely pre-occupied and focused on sex. That is false. Should we assume that all straight men are horny, lusting, sex-crazed adulterers just because some are? No! Most homosexuals (just like most heterosexuals) aren’t totally consumed by sex and don’t revolve their entire lives around having sex and hooking up with random individuals.

        • Difference is we segregate youth tents by sex in Explorers,etc. Now will we segregate by boys/girls and put each l/g one per individual tent? That would standardize the process to match what is current. Can’t put all the gay boys in one tent because that is like putting the boys with the girls. You might be able to put the gay boys with the straight girls but what about the Bi-sexuals. If Cub Scouts-put them with the parents but what about the Boy Scouts

          You have to agree with the logic. I am curious how you would resolve the dilemma.

  2. If the BSA wants to continue hanging on to these out-dated views, perhaps they should remove themselves from the World Scout Organization.

    The World Organization of the Scout Movement stated in 2011:
    “Scouting is an organization that is not exclusive on any grounds of discrimination. The World Organization of the Scout Movement has to stand up for civil and human rights… The World Scout Committee expresses deep concern at the occurrence of violations and discriminations of human rights in the world against persons on the grounds of their race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, sexual orientation, gender identity, birth or other status stresses that human rights and fundamental freedoms are the birthright of all human beings, that the universal nature of these.”

    I’m surprised that WOSM allows BSA members to wear the purple World Crest on their uniforms when the organization clearly discriminates on the grounds of sexual orientation.

    • Marcus — I agree 100%, if the BSA wants to continue this discrimination (which they have the legal right to do in America), then they really should stop calling themselves Scouts and remove themselves from the World Organization of the Scouting Movement. As WOSM says: “Scouting is an organization that is not exclusive on any grounds of discrimination” including “sexual orientation” and “gender identity.” It’s clear as day.

      It will be interesting to see what happens in 2019 if the BSA does not change their policy. As the World Scout Jamboree is currently scheduled to come to the Summit Bechtel Reserve in 2019. What will happen when the gay-banning BSA has to welcome and interact with homosexual Scouts from around the world?

      • “What will happen when the gay-banning BSA has to welcome and interact with homosexual Scouts from around the world?”

        According to some of the people here, apparently that is when hell will freeze over. I’ve always wondered what a frozen hell would look like, so I am kind of looking forward to the event.

  3. I would like to make you aware that not all Scouts follow the Hebrew or Christian Scriptures, nor are they required to for membership. However, for those who do, this might be useful:

    The Hebrew word toevah, in English translated “abomination,” does not signify something intrinsically evil like rape or theft discussed elsewhere in Leviticus, but something ritually unclean for Jews, like eating pork or having intercourse during menstruation. A prohibition against grave sexual sins like prostitution uses the word zimah, appearing in Lev 19:29. The Greek translation categorizes it under infringement of ritual purity rather than under violations of law or justice.

    A purely homosexual interpretation of the story of Sodom can be traced to Ambrose, Augustine, and Gregory the Great, when the story of Sodom included the concept of divine punishment for sins of the flesh, scelera carnis. Isa. 3:9, Jer. 23:14, Ezek. 16:49-50, Ecclus. 16:8 and Matt. 10:14-15 all advance theories of pride, greed, and contempt for strangers. Even an explicitly sexual reading in 2 Peter 1:10 is not concerned with homosexual acts.

    Romans 1 is intended to condemn Gentiles for their general infidelity; there was a time when monotheism was offered to or known by the Romans, but they rejected it (19-23). The point of Romans 1 is to stigmatize people who have rejected their calling and gotten off the true path they were once on. It would completely undermine the argument if the persons in question were not naturally inclined to the opposite sex as Paul says people are naturally inclined to monotheism. What caused the Romans to sin was not that they lacked what Paul considered proper inclinations but that they had them: they held the truth, but suppressed it in unrighteousness (18) because “they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer,” (28). Also, “against” is somewhat of a misleading translation of the preposition “παρά.” In the New Testament usage, “παρά” connotes not “in opposition to” (expressed by “κατά”), but “more than” or “in excess of.”

    Two words in 1 Corinthians 6:9 and one in 1 Timothy 1:10 have been taken at least since the early twentieth century to indicate that “homosexuals” will be excluded from the kingdom of heaven. Malakos, used in 1 Cor 6:9, is a common Greek word meaning “soft,” and is frequently understood as weak willed, debauched, licentious, loose, wanting in self-control, unrestrained, or wanton. Contemporary writings use it to describe opposite-sex lusts. The best evidence suggests Arsenokoitai meant “male prostitute” well into the fourth century. In 1 Tim 1:10, it is next to andrapodistes, which can be translated to ‘kidnappers’ or ‘slave-traders.’ One aim of the slave trade was to provide prostitutes for brothels; this could suggest that Paul is condemning a very specific and exploitative sexual system rather than gay sex.

    From an Eagle Scout and Catholic theologian, fully supportive of the Boy Scouts and its gay and straight members.

  4. I’ve participated in this same conversation, in several different arenas. This discussion has gone on for years in Linkedin’s scout leader groups.

    I see the same pattern every time. We start by removing “Cheerful”, “Friendly”, “Courteous” and “Kind” from the Scout Law. Then we change “Reverent” to “Fundamentalist Evangelical Christian”. “Brave” has tough going, because there’s so much fear of what could happen in tents at night. “Obedient” takes top billing, but only if you’re obedient to a particular religious viewpoint.

    I see people saying they are Scout leaders and Eagle Scouts, and then they say hateful things about people they’ve never met, arguing that an entire class of people are “unworthy”, “predators”, or “sinners.” It saddens me to hear leaders and Eagle Scouts talk that way.

    Usually there are cries to prevent the vast homosexual conspiracy that wants to destroy Scouting. Wow. Really? I have dozens of friends who are LGB or T. I’ve worked with them, played sports with them, and socialized with them since I was the age of Boy Scouts. My son and daughter have many friends who fall into these categories. They hang out at our house all the time. They aren’t different in any way that’s important to anything relevant to Scouting. They want to participate and have the same opportunities as straight youth, they want to contribute. The brave thing to do is to admit that they deserve the same opportunities.

    In my personal experience, who are we actually harming? Ironically, it’s the youngest scouts with “two moms”. Yup, the potential Tigers and Wolves who get told “you can be a Cub, but your Mom can’t help” are the only actual victims I’ve seen. I was just at our statewide Eagle celebration, and almost every single Eagle was accompanied by one or two parents wearing uniforms. My experience is that parental involvement is the single most important predictor of a Scout staying in the program and making it to Eagle. We start some kids out by saying “Mom’s not welcome here!” Taking your narrow religious beliefs and your fear out on a 7 year old is inexcusable.

    Homophobia is fading in our country. Surveys show a majority of Americans favor “Gay Marriage”, and support is strongest among the youth (teenagers and those in their 20′s). Eventually, Homophobia will be marginalized.

    • Boy do you ever not understand the significance or even the point of not having homosexuals, atheists, or agnostics in the BSA membership Kevin… Simply another aggressive militant supporter of people who believe and choose a certain lifestyle and then try to be part of something that they know wasn’t created for them… I don’t think I have ever heard of any scout, scout leader, or scout executive ever attack any of the three above mentioned groups or try to invade their decision to live and do what they choose to do.. Why do homosexuals, atheists, and agnostics think they have some sort of ownership and right to join the BSA.. Why would they?? I believe there would be very few homosexual men who would even want to be scoutmasters and this is all just for trying to normalize what they know and every Godly person knows to be abnormal and wrongful behavior.. But I honestly don’t care what you all do on your own time in your own worlds with your own lives; this is the USA after all.. I am willing to predict that any troop that would ever choose to have a homosexual leader would fold; is that the aggressive militant homosexuals desire? I don’t know; probably… “If I can’t win the BSA then I’ll destroy the BSA”. It’s a selfishly motivated battle to take something that simply doesn’t belong to you.. And using any methods to achieve your goal including attacking Christians, Attacking Godly People, Attacking Leaders, Eagle Scouts and everyone else that believes like most people believe which is that homosexual behavior is sinful behavior, I don’t think atheists or agnostics have any desire to join the BSA. All you do is cause more and more of the majority to wake up and defend this issue more and more.. It’s good BSA is waiting till May to choose.. Why wouldn’t they choose to favor the majority. You might attack biblical people but when you attack people who simply consider the Bible God’s Holy Word to all of us then who are you really attacking; your attacking God… Wow!! Good luck with that one… You can call a God fearing Bible reading faith filled Christian whatever you want… Doesn’t change His word.. and anyone that can read can see that God sees homosexual behavior as immoral… its very clear and plane in His Word… So call everyone you’d like to call names to everything you want.. think we haven’t heard it all before.. But no matter what you say the truth is still the truth at the end of it all; never changes does it… And in case your not sure; no it doesn’t…

      • From the 1914 Scoutmaster’s Handbook:

        “The Scout Movement is not antagonistic to any civic enterprise, but rather seeks to cooperate with all other good movements in the interest of the boy. The Movement is wholly non-sectarian and plans to work with every sect and creed alike; it is non-military, and seeks to promote Peace Scouting and to develop educational character-building for good citizenship. It is wholly non-partisan. It cannot favor one interest against another and cannot countenance interference on any debatable questions, whether social, religious or political.”

    • Homosexuality will never be anything but repulsive behavior to a heterosexual person.. That’s a truth that’s lasted since the beginning of time or we wouldn’t even be having this debate.. It goes against the will of God; wasn’t part of what He intended to happen with His creation.. Do you actually believe it is?? I don’t think there was any problem with the homosexual women’s children in our Council joining the scouts.. Scouts have standards and theirs nothing wrong with having moral standards.. There will be a very small number of people cry and whine and say it isn’t fair but so are many other things in life.. And that’s ok because some people choose to freely build an organization that has one set of standards and another group of people are free to build another organization to best serve their hearts desire.. I think the homosexual woman in Martins Ferry should start her own youth group and serve the like minded youth in her area in the way she feels would best serve those youth.. Respect for God’s Word isn’t radical Christianity.. If you consider Godly people who value His Word to be the radical’s then your going to find a lot of radicals in your world.. Its a freedom Christians choose to exercise.. I really do think you should have the courage to just go do your own thing… If you think your going to ultimately change the Wording of God’s Holy Bible then that’s never going to happen.. It’s written on the hearts of Godly men… Nobody’s saying anyone has to choose to live a sinful life or to not live a sinful life.. It’s a personal choice and each of us have a responsibility to be “Obedient” to His Word or to choose to be disobedient to His Word.. Scouts choose to try to be “Obedient” while being “Reverent”.. its honorable and everyone’s free to choose to do the same thing; even you… maybe especially you… Your wrong about how profuse homosexuality is; that’s completely untrue.. And your very wrong about how socially acceptable homosexual behavior is.. Your information is wrongful and the population of homosexuals is less than 1%.. the vast vast majority of people are not homosexuals… Why would the BSA cater to <1% and abandon the will of 99% of the people… how foolish would that be…..

      • From the 1914 Scoutmaster’s Handbook:

        “The Scout Movement is not antagonistic to any civic enterprise, but rather seeks to cooperate with all other good movements in the interest of the boy. The Movement is wholly non-sectarian and plans to work with every sect and creed alike; it is non-military, and seeks to promote Peace Scouting and to develop educational character-building for good citizenship. It is wholly non-partisan. It cannot favor one interest against another and cannot countenance interference on any debatable questions, whether social, religious or political.”

      • Wallace,

        Those are some bold claims to make. You will need to provide evidence that all heterosexuals are ‘repulsed’ by gays and lesbians, and that gays and lesbians make up less that 1% of the population. I wish you the best of luck in this endeavor.

  5. I am tired as a Christian giving into everyone. If you do not like a private organizations values then make or join your own. If this ruling passes I see the Boy Scouts of America coming to an end. So kiss 103 years good bye. I will not accept nor will I teach my children to accept this. If I wanted to be a cattle farmer I would go out of business if all I had was Bulls.

    • Sean, I think if a person is part of an organization, it makes sense that they would have an opinion on various issues facing the organization, and that they would advocate within the organization for what they see as positive change.

      Many, many people over the last 20-30 years have reevaluated same-sex attraction as they have learned more about the individuals affected by it. Many Christians have studied and prayed about it, and come to the conclusion that shunning folks because of this sin (if they believe it to be such) is not the kind, thoughtful, or moral way to proceed. In such circumstances, it’s normal and appropriate for people to consider whether the organizations to which they belong should change in response to these now more nuanced perspectives on the issue.

      It’s a *good* thing when members of an organization speak up when they feel something can be changed for the better. We don’t have to agree that they are right in terms of the changes they want, but if an organization is going to survive in the long term, it needs members to speak up when they feel they have a perspective worth considering.

      • Are you saying that your going to rewrite God’s Word Eagle Mom? I don’t think you have the authority?? No! I know you don’t have the authority… If you think ignoring sinful behavior is the answer and you encourage anyone to be disobedient to His Word then do you think you’ll be taking responsibility for their sins when they stand before God in His judgement? When the look behind them at that moment of their judgement and say “but EagleMom said it was ok” do you think you’ll be standing there to vouch for their behavior.. I think each person has a personal responsibility to mold their lives to His Biblical Principles and seek forgiveness for what those Principles reveal to all of us as His sinful behavior.. I really don’t think what people over the last 20-30 years is going to be any less sinful than it was 1000 years ago or 1000 years from now… His Word is Truely Timeless.. I wonder if you simply want to be another people pleaser… I wouldn’t want to be responsible for leading someone away from their opportunity of their eternal life with God??

    • I am tired as a Christian of giving in to fundamentalists’ interpretations dictating the lives of everyone else.

      As an aside, from this angle, all you have is bull.

      • It would be interesting to see how you interpret God’s Word with regard to Homosexual Behavior.. The words are sharp and clear.. Why would God have created a man and a woman to be made the way they are.. Do you believe he made a man to be with a man sexually and a woman to be with a woman sexually? For what Heavenly purpose.. Do you think Sexual Love is the ultimate love He wants us to find in this life? How does your Christian Denomination interpret the parts of God’s Word that deal very clearly and specifically with this fundamental issue of Godliness?? You either choose to surrender and submit to His biblical principles for living a Godly life or accept that when you choose not to then you’ve sinned against God.. How else do you find salvation and accept His promise of an everlasting life with Him.. And that’s His true Gracious Gift promised to all of us that choose to follow His way through His Son’s Blood…

        • First off, Wallace, thank you for asking how my faith understands the Bible when common parlance suggests that it is speaking about the modern notion of constitutively conditioned, identity constitutive homosexuality.

          Before I begin though, I would like to assure you I do not expect you to subscribe to my beliefs. I would also ask that you not expect me to subscribe to yours. No Scout or Scouter should be expected to hold something against their conscience.

          The Hebrew word toevah, in English translated “abomination,” does not signify something intrinsically evil like rape or theft discussed elsewhere in Leviticus, but something ritually unclean for Jews, like eating pork or having intercourse during menstruation. A prohibition against grave sexual sins like prostitution uses the word zimah, appearing in Lev 19:29. The Greek translation categorizes it under infringement of ritual purity rather than under violations of law or justice.

          A purely homosexual interpretation of the story of Sodom can be traced to Ambrose, Augustine, and Gregory the Great, when the story of Sodom included the concept of divine punishment for sins of the flesh, scelera carnis. Isa. 3:9, Jer. 23:14, Ezek. 16:49-50, Ecclus. 16:8 and Matt. 10:14-15 all advance theories of pride, greed, and contempt for strangers. Even an explicitly sexual reading in 2 Peter 1:10 is not concerned with homosexual acts.

          Romans 1 is intended to condemn Gentiles for their general infidelity; there was a time when monotheism was offered to or known by the Romans, but they rejected it (19-23). The point of Romans 1 is to stigmatize people who have rejected their calling and gotten off the true path they were once on. It would completely undermine the argument if the persons in question were not naturally inclined to the opposite sex as Paul says people are naturally inclined to monotheism. What caused the Romans to sin was not that they lacked what Paul considered proper inclinations but that they had them: they held the truth, but suppressed it in unrighteousness (18) because “they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer,” (28). Also, “against” is somewhat of a misleading translation of the preposition “παρά.” In the New Testament usage, “παρά” connotes not “in opposition to” (expressed by “κατά”), but “more than” or “in excess of.”

          Two words in 1 Corinthians 6:9 and one in 1 Timothy 1:10 have been taken at least since the early twentieth century to indicate that “homosexuals” will be excluded from the kingdom of heaven. Malakos, used in 1 Cor 6:9, is a common Greek word meaning “soft,” and is frequently understood as weak willed, debauched, licentious, loose, wanting in self-control, unrestrained, or wanton. Contemporary writings use it to describe opposite-sex lusts. The best evidence suggests Arsenokoitai meant “male prostitute” well into the fourth century. In 1 Tim 1:10, it is next to andrapodistes, which can be translated to ‘kidnappers’ or ‘slave-traders.’ One aim of the slave trade was to provide prostitutes for brothels; this could suggest that Paul is condemning a very specific and exploitative sexual system rather than gay sex.

          Secondly, you bring up the notion of Natural Law. This question exposes a struggle between two understandings of nature in the debate on Christian sexual ethics. In one, nature is generic and functions as an allegedly objective norm. People may feel and act differently than this norm, but what they do is against nature, and the solution to the issue of their behavior not matching the norm is a submission and reconnection to ‘true nature.’ In the other, nature is personalized and subjective but also functions as a norm. If one’s nature is a certain way, and it does no harm to others, it is one’s right, or even duty, to behave accordingly. Thus, homosexuality is seen as natural by some and against nature by others. The direct theological reading of biological facts of heterosexual intercourse as immediately expressing the will of God, and subsequent normalization for all humanity of such facts and characteristics, makes it impossible even to consider the possibility that sexual intimacy of gay persons might be a valuable expression of human love. However, human involvement in correcting and changing what is commonly considered nature or natural is an aspect of almost all cultural activity and is theologically based on the idea that the nature we live in and are a part of is in the process of becoming the Kingdom of God. The belief that God’s presence is in the physical mechanisms of conception and pregnancy has the tendency to make nature as it is understood at a certain moment in history the direct expression of God’s will. In the older tradition of natural law, as with Thomas Aquinas, the most important aspect was directionality, as in the tendency toward fulfillment of purpose and toward good. The purpose of human beings was to become happy by searching for and realizing the common good, which is achieved in a relationship with God. Ergo, no mechanism or aspect of nature can be seen in itself be seen as a direct expression of God’s power and will because a moral analysis must include an assessment of directionality toward goodness.

          An inclusive and morally directional definition of sexuality would be “the expression of the natural human urge to bond together, to fulfill each other’s longings, to enjoy each other’s company and each other’s fulfillment.” This definition recognizes that sexuality is not simply a categorical series of acts, but a form of communion between persons in their entirety. From this perspective, no specific forms of sexual behavior are in-themselves natural or unnatural, much like other areas of human life; if it builds enduring and humanizing bonds of mutual obligation and respect in which eros becomes an expression of agape, it contributes to the good. It is not because ‘people who are gay can’t help it or change’ that gay sexuality should be accepted, but rather because it opens up possibilities for expressing and cultivating goodness by contributing to human happiness in relationships that have been hidden and repressed. This inclusive definition promotes a theology directed toward fulfilling and cultivating the world as God’s creation.

          I hope you can see how our religious views are similar, and how they are different. Again, there are Scouts and Scouters that do not even share the texts and traditions as us, and neither of us can expect them to follow our laws, even if we are convinced they are from God.

          Christ’s peace.

        • jackmichaelson also commented earlier “I am tired as a Christian of giving in to fundamentalists’ interpretations dictating the lives of everyone else.
          As an aside, from this angle, all you have is bull.”
          HERE IS A BLUNT ANSWER:
          To all of your pro LBGT people out there who say it is mean spirited to issue a rebuke to false statements God disagrees with you:
          25 But to those who rebuke the wicked will be delight, And a good blessing will come upon them.
          Prov 24:25
          4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Lest you also be like him.
          5 Answer a fool as his folly deserves, Lest he be wise in his own eyes.
          Prov 26:4,5

          jackmichaelson, you are the Master of Bull. You claim you are an Eagle Scout and Catholic theologian, fully supportive of the Boy Scouts and its gay and straight members. What you are is a radical activist and promoter of LBGT lifestyle. Your so called theological background is flawed to say the least. To say that God’s Word does not condemn homosexuality is radical in itself. You use other writings of other promoters of homosexuality which is taking the Hebrew and Greek text out of context.
          You obviously are a student of the extremist John J. McNeill, “Homosexuality: Challenging the Church to Grow” and others who are heretics and an Enemies of the Cross. Your postings seem to be out of McNeill’s pages. I will be glad to provide a line by line rebuke of this by real Bible scholars.
          You use extra Biblical authority and make your statements as if Paul and others were just men writing their own thoughts. You fail to quote His Word that He is the author of all Scripture Old and New Testament.
          You call any Christian a Fundamentalist that disagrees with your belief in sodomy. All true believers accept the Truth of Scripture and for thousands of years sodomy is homosexuality, lesbians and bestiality.

          15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 “You will aknow them by their fruits.
          Matthew 7:15.16a

          Proponents of this interpretation say the understanding of Genesis 19 as referring to homosexuality arose in the intertestamental period primarily as the result of the books of Jubilees and Josephus. There are even some who try to connect this story with other ancient myths about hospitality.

          18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.
          20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming quickly.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
          Rev 25:18-20
          Rom 1:26–27 is the strongest condemnation of homosexual actions. Rom 1:26 deals with lesbianism (homosexual relationships between women), while 1:27 treats male homosexuality. This is the only text in Scripture that mentions female homosexuality. This passage teaches that homosexual practices are evidences of God’s judgment on those who reject his revelation. What part of this sdo you not understand:
          26 FOR THIS REASON GOD GAVE THEM OVER TO DEGRADING PASSIONS; FOR THEIR WOMEN EXCHANGED THE NATURAL FUNCTION FOR THAT WHICH IS UNNATURAL, 27 AND IN THE SAME WAY ALSO THE MEN ABANDONED THE NATURAL FUNCTION OF THE WOMAN AND BURNED IN THEIR DESIRE TOWARD ONE ANOTHER, MEN WITH MEN COMMITTING INDECENT ACTS AND RECEIVING IN THEIR OWN PERSONS THE DUE PENALTY OF THEIR ERROR.
          Romans 1:26,27

          Perversion of the Gospel and Warnings:

          6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;
          7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you, and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
          8 But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed (gk: anathema).
          9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed
          (gk: anathema).
          10 For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ. Gal 1:6-10

        • You know Taylor, you have a point. Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Lest you also be like him. Answer a fool as his folly deserves, Lest he be wise in his own eyes.

          Have a blessed day.

        • Taylor, You have posted a lot of scripture here. I’ve been doing some digging, and found that there was copious biblical justification given for segregation (back in the day).

          How have you come to a point where you are comfortable ignoring one set of directives, but so strongly defend the other?

        • Liberals try and equate homosexuality with the Civil Rights movement. Although they are both moral issues homosexuality is a choice behavior whereas being a black minority was and is not a choice. It is funny that the vast majority of blacks resent this. Slavery was legal in early America, but was immoral and the Declaration of Independence was the turning point in America regarding that and religious liberty. Slavery was a state that existed, but the Bible never condones it.

        • Taylor, you state, “Slavery was a state that existed, but the Bible never condones it.” Methinks you need to reread your Bible. Among a myriad of other passages, how about:
          “However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.” (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

          This (and so many other requirements in the Biblical books of law – when is the last time you helped stone a woman who was not a virgin at marriage as demanded by Deuteronomy 22?) is why many Christian denominations consider at Jesus’ comand to love one another as more critical and relevant to our lives today.

          Each of our personal interpretations of the Bible (or other holy books, for those who are non-Christians) notwithstanding, however, Scouting is non-denominational and we are charged to be tolerant of one another’s faiths. I will not tell you that you have to believe that homosexuality is ok but I will ask that you stop telling me that I have to discriminate within my unit when my faith teaches love and tolerance.

        • MT Momma, methinks my Bible reading and studying is fine thank you. God’s Word has only one interpretation, however you can choose to read into it what you want, that does not change Truth or the Word. There are many applications of Scripture, but only one interpretation. Slavery in the Old Testament was an accepted practice when God ordered His people to take out certain heathen countries or groups. God is not only a God of love, but God is Love. But, God is also a Righteousness Judge and our Lord Jesus Christ came to fulfill the Law. Jesus is the same today, yesterday and forever. We as Christians are to make moral judgments and we are to call out and correct those who make false statements and who try and rewrite the Word of God.
          You are trying to steer people away from the issue and that is homosexuality (sodomy) and not slavery or a civil rights issue.
          There is nowhere in Scripture that says we are to embrace another Gospel.
          8 But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed (gk: anathema).
          Gal 1:6
          Radicals are the most intolerant people in America. God exhorts us to expose false teaching especially where His Word is involved.

          5 “For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
          11 AND DO NOT PARTICIPATE IN THE UNFRUITFUL DEEDS OF DARKNESS, BUT INSTEAD EVEN EXPOSE THEM;
          12 for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret.
          13 But all things become visible when they are exposed by the light, for everything that becomes visible is light.”
          Ephesians 5:5,11,12,13

          Jesus said, “Know The Truth And The Truth Will Set You Free”
          John 8:32

        • Well, Taylor, you were the one who stated that the Bible didn’t condone slavery. Apparently somewhere you missed some scripture, since it is pretty clear that there are numerous passages which do. (You can even sell your daughter into slavery as far as Exodus is concerned.)

          I do not, however, want to get into a debate over the Bible with you – regardless of what your faith tells you about the validity of your interpretation of the Bible, it is not the only interpretation. And even if all Christians agreed on the meaning of every passage in the Bible, it would be irrelevant to this discussion as the BSA is not a Christian organization. That is the issue that I keep trying to steer us back to. The BSA does not endorse any specific denomination or even any particular faith. Anyone who professes a belief in a higher power is welcome to join. As such, and since the Scout Law tells us that we are to respect each other’s faith and beliefs, you have no right to tell me that my unit has to discriminate against homosexuals when my faith tells me that it is immoral to do so.

        • MT Momma, you can slice it and dice any way you want. But, God’s Word is God’s Word and there is only one interpretation. The BSA was founded on Christian Principles and God ‘s Word.
          That Is The Fact.
          The Boys Scouts of America was incorporated FEBRUARY 8, 1910.
          Sir Robert Baden-Powell began the movement in England two years prior.
          In the pamphlet Scouting & Christianity, 1917, Baden-Powell wrote:

          “Scouting is nothing less than applied Christianity.”

          The Scout Handbook, 5th edition (1948) explained a Scout’s “Duty to God”:
          “You worship God regularly with your family in your church or synagogue. You try to follow the religious teachings that you have been taught, and you are faithful in your church school duties, and help in church activities.

          Above all you are faithful to Almighty God’s Commandments.

          Most great men in history have been men of deep religious faith. Washington knelt in the snow to pray at Valley Forge. Lincoln always sought Divine guidance before each important decision. Be proud of your religious faith”……
          You can choose to do what you want, but God will not be mocked.

        • Taylor, if you read Lord Baden-Powell’s Scouting for Boys, upon which the entire Scouting movement is based, you will find that there are some mentions of God, two mentions of Christian/Christianity, and no mentions of Christ or the Bible. Scouting in America was based on a combination of B-P’s Scouting program plus a couple of existing American programs (Daniel Carter Beard’s Sons of Daniel Boone and Ernest Thompson Seton’s Woodcraft Indians).

          If you check the 1911 Boy Scout Handbook, you will find that, “The aim of the Boy Scouts is to supplement the various existing educational agencies, and to promote the ability in boys to do things for themselves and others. It is not the aim to set up a new organization to parallel in its purposes others already established. The opportunity is afforded these organizations, however, to introduce into their programs unique features appealing to interests which are universal among boys. The method is summed up in the term Scoutcraft, and is a combination of observation, deduction, and handiness, or the ability to do things. Scoutcraft includes instruction in First Aid, Life Saving, Tracking, Signaling, Cycling, Nature Study, Seamanship, Campcraft, Woodcraft, Chivalry, Patriotism, and other subjects. This is accomplished in games and team play, and is pleasure, not work, for the boy. All that is needed is the out-of-doors, a group of boys, and a competent leader.” It also states, “Faithfulness to duty is another one of the scout virtues. When it is a scout’s duty to do something, he dare not shirk. A scout is faithful to his own interest and the interests of others. He is true to his country and his God.” The clearest evidence that it was not founded as a Christian organization is where it talks about how to become a Boy Scout: “The easiest way to become a boy scout is to join a patrol that has already been started. This patrol may be in a Sunday School, Boys’ Brigade, Boys’ Club, Young Men’s Christian Association, Young Men’s Hebrew Association, Young Men’s Catholic Association, or any other organization to which you may belong. If there is no patrol near you, get some man interested enough to start one by giving him all the information.” Pretty sure you can take it to the bank that members of the Young Men’s Hebrew Association were not Christians.

          The 1911 Handbook also explains the 12th point of the Scout Law:
          “12. A scout is reverent.
          He is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties and respects the convictions of others in matters of custom and religion.”

          Based on what I have read from you so far, I am pretty certain that no amount of reason or evidence is going to change your conviction that the BSA is a Christian organization and that all members must follow your brand of Christianity so this is the last that I will be discussing with you on the topic.

        • specifically where do you find a charge to be tolerant of another faith and specifically how do you define tolerance? How do you think a Christian should respond to someone who chooses to attack the freedom of the BSA to make its own policies and a member of the BSA who also agrees with the membership policies of the BSA ? Do you think God is tolerant of sinful behavior? Do you think people who defend the BSA are without justification if they believe membership should be contingent in a belief in God a belief that homosexuality is immoral behavior and isn’t nature of the men the BSA chooses freely to want to be the leaders of the boys their promoting to parents to be the type of male role model they want to lead their troops and councils..?

        • Walla e/Wallace, the charge to be tolerant of the faith of others comes from the explanation of the 12th point of the Scout law from the 1911 Boy Scout Handbook and continuing today on scouting.org:
          “Reverent – A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.”
          http://www.scouting.org/faq/alumni.aspx

          To respect:
          9. to hold in esteem or honor: I cannot respect a cheat.
          10. to show regard or consideration for: to respect someone’s rights.
          11. to refrain from intruding upon or interfering with: to respect a person’s privacy.
          which is actually a greater charge than just to tolerate (to allow the existence, presence, practice, or act of without prohibition or hindrance; permit.)

          I think a Christian should respond with love for one another in all situations. I think Grace covers God’s tolerance. Most importantly, I believe that there are many faiths included in the BSA and that no one faith has the right to tell others what they should believe is immoral or that they must discriminate against others.

          As I said to Taylor, it is my belief that no amount of explaining my position will change your conviction that the BSA is a Christian organization and that your brand of Christianity is the one that we must all follow. As such, I am done spending my time trying to convince you otherwise.

        • It’s all one Word Kevin; God’s. It’s a guide for everyone to follow to if they choose to follow a life that leads to an eternal life with Gid in heaven.. your freedom to choose or not to choose; mine too and I’ve made my choice.. It’s all pretty fundamental; elemental.. The Scouts believe in God; one God.. the God in the Holy Bible.. there is only one God.. that belief led the scouts to exclude people who choose to engage in homosexuality, atheism, and agnostism.. but not those that choose to change their minds about all that and God can lead a person to change their mind about living a sinful life and grow closer to Him with a more pure love.. that’s not evil.. that’s not hateful, that’s through forgiveness by accepting His blood as payment for their freedom.. its spiritual love; not physical and eternal life is far more important than the BSA or anything else on earth.. but it takes a surrender of yourself and a desire to change your life to become cheerful in trying to mold your life to follow biblical principles… scouts want men who will teach boys His ways by leading with true and honest hearts a life that desires to accept His way and His Word as the only way.. its fundamental truth.. fundamental love.. there’s nothing wrong with wanting that and wanting that for everyone.. you can choose and so have I; I won’t change my heart; nothing on this earth would be worth it; I actually know this…

        • We’re definitely talking past each other. I’ve made my point, and I do realize I won’t change your mind. I hope some are open to thinking this through.

          I have found that every one of these discussions (and I’ve been around this subject in several forums, several times) has taught me something.

          Taylor and Walla e/Wallace, I disagree with you, but I wish you well.

        • There is only one interpretation of the bible? Then why on earth are there so many different denominations of christianity?

        • Walla e
          February 12, 2013 @ 5:05 pm
          “specifically where do you find a charge to be tolerant of another faith and specifically how do you define tolerance?”

          I find a charge to be tolerant in the Scout Law. It states A Scout is Reverent. A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. HE RESPECTS THE BELIEFS OF OTHERS.

          Nowhere in the Scout Law does it say that the christian god that Walla e believes in is the one true god that all scouts should be reverent to. Since the Scout Law is our authority here, it supercedes anything that is printed in Walla e’s bible when it comes to scouting.

      • If you choose to consider and call God’s Holy Word Bull then good luck with eternity jackmichaelson… everyone’s free choice to live a Godly life or not.. you can’t trick or fool the truth; it just is what it is…. I’m not interested in changing your mind; you can freely choose to follow the truths of His Word or not.. I’m interested in sharing the truths of His Word and not giving manipulation of His Word unanswered freedom… Funny how aggressive militant homosexuals try to dictate my culture to me; try to convince people evil behavior is normal and justified biblically… good luck with that too.. The Holy Spirit reveals the truth to Christians and Christians make up the vast majority of the membership of the BSA.. And I can sleep easy knowing that truth… your one of a tiny tiny minority with truly a very weak voice on this issue.. without a corrupt media to amplify the aggressive militant homosexual agenda nobody would ever hear a sound because there just aren’t enough people needing to be involved with the issue to make it of any significance in our culture… But people are waking up to the corruption in our mainstream media too and turning them off and turning toward a more honest media… Funny how truth is truly timeless… it always rises to the surface in time…. And it always will..

  6. Also nice move on the BSA to put this vote off until May. That will force everyone to pay their dues before the vote and most will have already paid for camp. DO I GET A REFUND IF THE VOTE DOES NOT GO MY WAY?

  7. “Unworthy”. This is the term bandied about with suck ease by those who call themselves “Loving Christians”. Such an oxymoronic term “loving Christian.”

    Know this. Homosexuals, and the more despised atheists, are already in your ranks as both leaders and scouts. You call us friends and we fill the many positions the “loving Christian” fathers and mothers are too lazy or selfish to fill. We simply keep our mouths shut about who we are. Typical that Christians seem to like it that way.

    You also call us all types of vile and disgusting names around campfires not knowing that we sit amongst you, not knowing that you insult the very people helping you to keep your atavistic organization going.

    So, as one such person who has been told that I am the epitomy of all that is wrong, evil, vile and corrupt in the world while doing more for Christian children that their own parents are will do, I tell you now, I am done.

    I am done supporting parents that not willing to put forth the effort for their own children that I am willing to put forth for strangers.

    I am done listening to one vile comment after another about someone like me who actually lives the standards that most Christians and scouts simply pay lip service to.

    I will also no longer fear threats against my children for simply having a father like me.

    I am an atheist.

    I am finished doing anything for the scouts.

    You want me gone, so be it.

    No “clean, decent, Christian hetero” parent, as you call them, will fill my place. They are simply, too lazy to back up with actions what they claim to support publicly.

    • Gene –

      Dads like you who are willing to do the hard work that makes Scouting what it is are hard to find. I hear your frustration. But please consider staying. Scouting is changing, and some folks have a rough time with change, and sometimes that comes out in their behavior. You can help.

      A scout is Friendly and Kind. Gently call others on it when they speak ill of people different than themselves. Call them on it when they rely on stereotypes to judge others. Call them on it when they speak from ignorance. You don’t have to share your personal beliefs to do this. You just have to let go of your fear of being shunned or ousted. Once you’ve faced this possibility, and made your peace with it, you can be a powerful force for change. Poet Audre Lourde said, “When I dare to be powerful, to use my strength in the service of my vision, then it becomes less and less important whether I am afraid. …I have come to believe over and over again that what is most important to me must be spoken, made verbal and shared, even at the risk of having it bruised or misunderstood.” A Scout is Brave.

      Be open with your boys about what you’re feeling. Help them to learn how and when to gently call others on their behavior. Be an example to them of how peaceful change can happen, one person at a time. Scouting benefits from having a wide range of participants, from a wide array of backgrounds and beliefs. Scouting is not owned by any one belief of what makes a person “reverent” or “morally straight”. A Scout is friendly and kind. Stand up for this truth. Work for change.

    • So hateful and so wrong… You are so wrongful… Thanks for leaving the organization; I don’t think we were a good fit for you.. We don’t have to be a good fit for everyone but everyone is welcome to join and follow the scouting program which will lead you to enjoy some very wholesome and Godly experiences.. It’s been all pluses for me from the time I was a boy growing in scouts and earning my Eagle Rank through my time as a leader helping and watching my son and other scouts now earn their Eagle Ranks… Its been very rewarding for me as a leader… An experience I wouldn’t have missed for the world… Think your the first angry person to call me names? No.. But that’s ok because I don’t feel the same way toward you… You certainly have a lot of labels for people… I wonder what you call yourself.. oh yea.. an atheist… and that’s your free choice.. good luck with that one…

    • We have plenty of qualified leaders and organizations that will step in and fill any voids left by people or organizations that currently support and choose to not support the BSA in the future.. As an atheist it must have been very difficult to stand up and recite the Oath and other Godly aspects woven all throughout the Scouting Program.. You should be happy to leave.. And I have met some of the hardest working, exciting adults leading the BSA units I’ve been involved in.. Maybe when you leave your unit will improve its spirits… God Blesses Godly people… and He always keeps His arms open to you if you ever choose freely to change your mind about your faith; I hope you do… I hope you find eternal life too… its free; just a promise away…. yours Gene S

  8. Submitted to BSA and duplicated on The Patriot Post:

    Your media release re criteria for openly homosexual members & leaders appears to be nothing short of capitulation to an ardent and noisy minority who, with the help of decidedly biased media outlets, hold in contempt the long and successful tradition of “morally straight” that has made the BSA such a winner in contrast with an increasingly self-centered and hedonistic populus.

    Please bear in mind that most anything -goes “progressives” so quick to hurl accusations of bigotry are also those who would readily surrender the U.S. Constitution to the U.N.; removing our First and Second Amendments and empowering a juggernaut bureaucracy more onerous than any we have ever known.

    Scouting being one of the last firm bulwarks against such incursions against our liberties, and all the more potent because of its training of future generations, allowing homosexuals in carte blanche will indeed be the camels’ nose under the tent; goodbye Scouting as we know it.

    Recently we have seen “under God” omitted from U.S. dignitaries’ publicly recited Pledge of Allegiance, as well as aggressive efforts to redefine marriage. Will BSA eliminate or merely redefine “morally straight?”

    If so, it will indeed be the proverbial bloodless coup; membership will plummet, BSA will be emasculated, and the local holdouts will be relentlessly attacked for defending their values: The perfect Divide and Conquer strategy.

    Bear in mind that the cry for “tolerance” is followed by a cry for “endorsement,” and then “mandate,” with the ultimate objective being to dilute, demean, degrade and finally depose traditional values. We must not surrender this front.

    And to quote from http://www.dennisprager.com : Sowing internal dissent is the best way to destroy an organization. That’s the what the Left is trying to do the Scouts. They may succeed. Why are they so bent on destroying the Scouts? The Scouts don’t make Leftists.

    • “The Scouts don’t make Leftists.” Nor do they make Right-Wingers. Scouting is the premier leadership program for young men, not a political organization. There are plenty of liberals in Scouting.

      “Why are they so bent on destroying the Scouts?” They aren’t, they want to participate on an equal basis, without being judged for things that have nothing to do with the Scouting program.

      • Scouts don’t have a patent on building a youth organization; they’ve just built the best one I’ve ever been involved in and I’ve been involved for many many years… If you love the quality of the scouts and value everything it is then why would you ever want to be trying to break something that’s fixed??? Thanks for your support in saying that Scouting is a premier leadership program for young men; but they aren’t young men.. their just boys.. very impressionable.. and they don’t need to be exposed to all the efforts of what homosexual leaders are going to be trying to confront them with as the aggressive militant homosexuals try to normalize to boys what their heart is going to tell them is wrongful.. Does anyone understand that homosexuality is simply repulsive behavior.. that includes all aspects of homosexual intimacy and there is simply no place for it in the scouting program and YES there will be homosexuals who feel they need to prove who they are to everyone around them.. I see it now and its repulsive to me.. why wouldn’t it happen in scouting to if the BSA permits homosexuals to become members of scouting??? It will happen.. Don’t need a crystal ball to see that coming and then units will collapse because parents will pull their kids and leaders will walk away from it all.. And the tiny number of militant homosexual aggressors who blow through a big megaphone called the media will have been successful in terrorizing the vast majority and destroying the very premier youth organization you consider the scouts to be…

        • Your heart =/= everyone else’s heart. I know this is difficult, but not everyone will agree with you. Not everyone thinks that God feels the way you believe God to feel. And no matter how much you are absolutely certain that you are right, and for all I know, you could be, that should not mandate belief or action on the part of other Scouts or Scouters.

        • You don’t have to believe me.. If your able to read and comprehend and your heart’s full of the Holy Spirit you’ll find the truth yourself.. Last time I heard His Holy Word is still the number one selling book in the WORLD.. This isn’t a me thing.. and I know only certain people will choose to answer His call to be Godly men.. but its a choice we each have the responsibility to make for ourselves.. you can choose to seek an eternal life with Him by following His way to Him through His written Word or you can choose to not seek an eternal life.. I didn’t write the book; see my name on any of the pages?? I just try to mold my life to what He calls me to do… And that’s what the scouting program calls me to do too… part of it all… You don’t have to be Godly but you have to be Godly to honestly join the BSA or everything they are will only be a torment to you… why would you choose that.. God made the BSA Great by blessing it for its obedience to His Word… He’s ok with taking that blessing away and letting it all crumble.. He is infinite and patient.. There will be another Godly organization to take its place just like there will always be Godly men born to take my place one day… It’s timeless and far more infinite and powerful than me… And you know what jackmichaleson; a lot more people believe like me than you even want to begin to think… This is the thinking of the majority of scouts… don’t fool yourself to believing anything different or your just lying to yourself and a good scout is honest too….

      • I influence many youth with my ideals.. As a leader its my responsibility to let the scouts know that I’m a Godly Christian Man… I wear my faith everywhere I go and never check it in at the door.. Why wouldn’t I; I’m a Citizen of the United States of America and proud and thankful for my Constitutional Rights… paid for in Blood…

        • Wallace,

          You’ve (inadvertently) made a very important point by attacking the Rabbi.

          Once you’ve decided to be exclusionary, you’ve placed yourself on a slippery slope. You’ve decided to hate and exclude, now you have to decide who you want to hate and exclude. Would you exclude African-Americans? Red heads? Jews? Hispanics? Anyone under 4 feet tall? Should everyone who participates be required to speak English? Should everyone in a BSA unit be a US citizen?

          Once you’ve decided that you are going to discriminate and demonize people, you’re really just deciding where to place the line. You can’t be only half-a-bigot.

        • “I wear my faith everywhere I go and never check it in at the door” … that tells me that you’re carrying on an agenda with your unit that is not part of the purpose of the BSA and is in fact in violation of the declaration of religious principle.

          Perhaps that’s why you’re so concerned that the LGBT community will try to indoctrinate youth, because that’s what you’re doing?

    • Here is another Eagle Scouts perspective.. As a boy I lost my father when I was 7.. My mother was busy raising 4 children and trying to work a job so she didn’t have time to spend doing some of the things a family with two parents might be able to do.. Scouting became my second home and my scoutmaster became a quasi father to me.. my fellow scouters were my brothers and I still have a bond with all of them and occasionally I’m blessed to spend time with some of them.. When I was a boy if our troop was led by two homosexual men I would have quit.. I know I would have quit.. And my friends would have quit too.. children aren’t blind and they don’t mix words with political correctness etc… we would have all quit and lost out on our opportunity to share in the scouting experience.. Do you think young boys are going to be tolerant to the behavior of homosexuals.. No.. It’s a volunteer organization; their going to quit.. So the vast majority of boys are going to quit and miss out on an opportunity to be a scout and to maybe become an Eagle Scout as I did.. Call me whatever politically correct nasty name you want to call me but one thing you can’t say about what I’ve said is that any of this isn’t the truth because it is… boys and their parents are not going to join the BSA if they don’t offer the level of program their offering today… My son recently earned His Eagle Rank; I’m very proud of him… I’m very proud to be an Eagle Scout too… Your truly wrongful in trying to make Godly men and boys feel badly for standing up for God’s Word with regard to what Morally Straight truly means.. And do you think a true Eagle Scout’s character is one to be swayed from His Truth because of what any man says??? I hope not.. That’s not the character the Scouting program nurtures and builds… Your wrongful Mike Kennedy… It’s just a matter of truth.. You might become a hero to certain people as you seek to please them but the truth isn’t on your side no matter how many people you get to speak to your cause… The truth lies in His Written Word and that’s not going to be changed.. it is a timeless Word because Truths Never Change… They simply don’t

      • Here’s the thing, Wallace (and, honestly, I am not sure why I am ‘feeding’ you, but I feel that I need to respond…) – despite what you apparently believe, Scouting does not belong to any particular denomination or interpretation of the Bible. As a matter of fact, it is not even a Christian organization. As stated on scouting.org’s page on the Scout Law, “Reverent – A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.”

        Nothing in the Scout Oath or Law require a person to believe in Christ or Christian scriptures. They require a belief in a higher power. Even among mainstream Christian denominations, there is a huge spectrum of belief regarding homosexuality. I am not telling you that you have to believe that homosexuality is ok. However, part of respecting the beliefs of others means accepting that others can disagree with your beliefs and can still be moral individuals.

        Food for thought for you from Lord Baden-Powell himself, “God is not some narrow-minded personage, as some people would seem to imagine, but a vast Spirit of Love that overlooks the minor differences of form and creed and denomination and which blesses every man who really tries to do his best, according to his lights, in His service.”

        • Don’t worry.. your not feeding me anything; I have a hard time believing you’ll ever say anything that I’ll ever take to heart… It’s apparent to me that this blog is becoming a place where aggressive militant homosexuals, atheists, and agnostics and their supporters have chosen to gather so I’ll have to entrench myself into the battle and continue contradicting lies with truths.. I’ll do it alone if that’s what I have to do; I have a heart to do so… It’s my organization… The BSA will loose a lot more than they’ll ever ever gain if they choose to turn their back on the Christians who represent the vast majority of their membership.. If they didn’t know this truth they would have changed the policy a long time ago.. Why would you turn your back on 99% of your membership in order to appease < 1% of the population??? that would be insanity…

        • I challenge you to read everything Baden-Powell has said about scouting.. don’t pick and choose.. put it all on this blog and let Baden-Powell’s full word speak for itself with regard to how he felt about scouting… my challenge to you MT-Momma… It is rooted in the Christian Faith…

        • “No man is much good unless he believes in God and obeys His laws. So every Scout should have a religion….Religion seems a very simple thing: First: Love and Serve God. Second: Love and serve your neighbour.” – (Scouting For Boys, 1908)

          “Religion is essential to happiness. This is not a mere matter of going to church, knowing Bible history, or understanding theology. Religion . . . means recognizing who and what is God, secondly, making the best of the life that He has given one and doing what He wants of us. This is mainly doing something for other people.”
          (Baden Powell, Rovering to Success 1930)

          “When asked where religion came into Scouting and Guiding, Baden-Powell replied, It does not come in at all. It is already there. It is a fundamental factor underlying Scouting and Guiding.” (Religion and the Boy Scout and Girl Guides Movement–an address, 1926).

          There are more but I believe this makes the point. This is why atheists and agnostics are not allowed. This is also why you cannot have a legitimate two tiered system that allows broad differences in behavior. There must be one standard applied equally throughout the whole program. It is clear that Powell believed that a young man and his leaders must live by the set standard or go away. He believed that essentially you change the person and not the standard. Many in this very forum believe the opposite. They believe that allowing any behavior is preferable to excluding those who are not worthy. Sadly, Scouting cannot be all things to all people and we should stop trying. We cannot right every perceived wrong nor should we. Sometimes we have to just say no.

        • Andrew, thank you for those quotes. The common thread, action-wise, seems to be “Love and serve your neighbor”, “doing something for other people”. These, in turn, are the common themes among the vast majority of world religions. Clearly, if you are welcoming those of differing faiths, and working side by side with them, you put the focus on this common thread – being kind, friendly, helpful, courteous. You don’t focus on the details where your faiths differ; you put those aside in order to work together. You give the Jew an alternative to bacon at breakfast, you allow the Muslim a break to pray five times a day, you make sure the Catholic has an alternative to meat on Fridays. You also “don’t sweat the small stuff”, leaving minor sins (which we all commit) between your fellow Scout and his God, especially if his actions are sinful in your religion and not in his.

          When it comes to this BSA policy, we seem to differ over which category homosexuality falls into. Is homosexuality as sin a core theme across diverse religions? Or it it a minor difference in the big scheme of things, that is largely between the Scout and his God? Is being homosexual such a dire sin to some folks that they simply cannot walk among or work alongside such sinners? Or is it part of the idea that none of us are without sin, and that as sinners we must avoid throwing stones at our fellow sinners?

          The nice thing about the proposed policy is that, at the troop level, these questions are left up to the CO. Each boy is held accountable for his own CO’s standards of morality. For some COs, this means that homosexual scouts will be considered immoral, and will not be welcome. For other COs, embracing such scouts will be the moral position; shunning them would be immoral. (In either case, sexual *behavior* in the context of scouting is absolutely unacceptable, regardless of the gender of either party.) Protocols for scenarios where both types of troops come together will have to be worked out, but the fact is that regardless of the policy there are gay people in scouting, and these protocols are likely to be a wise move regardless.

          I think the proposed policy is right in line with Baden-Powell’s vision for Scouting. It allows those of differing faiths, which take very different views on this topic, to work together in Scouting, serving their communities and doing things for others.

      • Under the proposed policy, your unit would have had the option to not allow homosexual leaders. If the majority of members of your unit would have quit if the leader had been gay, then the unit would likely have been closed to gay leaders anyway. If your unit did allow gay members, then you could have joined a troop that didn’t. See how that works? We CAN respect everyone’s beliefs.

    • Kevin, I’m somehow missing your reverence. I don’t see in you a Scout: just an LGBT apologist. It’s easy to cry “hatred & bigotry” when there is none in evidence. But shouting down or vilifying your opponent is not a cogent argument for your position. Besides, it is absurd to equate sexual behavior with ethnicity. I have met former gay folk, but never former black folk.

      You might have noticed that the kids molested by priests in the Roman Catholic Church were overwhelmingly male, so yes, while we recognize that not all gay or bi men are pedophiles, we also know that Scouting ranges from 5 years old to 21. In a society saturated with blatant sexual messages and personal electronic devices, BSA tries to offer some semblance of refuge from both. This is a good thing.

      With all due respect to my beloved gay friends and family members, I prefer we intersect and overlap in areas of life where it is MUTUALLY agreeable and beneficial, and that we avoid imposing ourselves upon one another where it is not.

      That, Kevin, is courtesy and respect, not hatred and bigotry.

  9. I had a committee member tell me today that he received an email to a survey from National regarding this issue. Anyone know anything about an actual survey sponsored by National?

    I have yet to hear of them actually surveying their adult membership.

    • I haven’t received a survey but in this day and age of electronic communication it wouldn’t be hard to survey every paid member of the BSA.. this would be inclusive of scouts over 16 years old.. jusy ask one question; yea or nea to changing the membership requirements.. i’d be interestes in seeing the results.. i’d want documentation that the results weren’t tampered with..

      • While the results of nation-wide survey of BSA’s membership would be interesting to see (and possibly even helpful to the national board), I do not think that such a “vote” or survey should be the sole deciding factor in this decision. We can not let majority rule trample minority rights.

        • The minority don’t have rights.. We live in a Democracy.. The US Constitution protects your rights and protects the rights of the BSA too..and the Supreme Court of the US even said that the BSA has the right to organize and operate a youth organization with the policies and standards they feel are important to fulfill their mission.. and the same Constitution and Supreme Court are there to protect your rights Kyle to build and protect your own youth organization if you feel so strongly about what you believe.. And if you don’t build your own youth organization then I guess you really didn’t feel as strongly about building a youth organization that reflected your ideals and maybe your real ambition is to simply try to destroy an organization that’s only exercising its constitutional rights to operate freely in a manner consistent with what our forefathers envisioned when they wrote the document over 200 years ago…

      • He sent me a link. Ended up being a link to the “Comments” form. But he did get the email while others did not.

      • Walla e, one of the nice things about this policy is that it essentially *is* a vote. If the vast majority of COs want the existing policy to remain in place, then very little will change. There may be a few troops in liberal areas who allow gay members, but those troops have been “don’t ask, don’t tell” all along.

        • localizing membership policies would be a disaster to unity and uniformity.. troops intermingle all the time at scouting functions and leaders will have no idea of the nature of other leaders who may be in a position of leadership over his scouts at those functions; i.e. summer camp, camporees, jamborees, merit badge colleges etc.. think the leaders of troops who choose to follow one set of membership policies should be different than the uniforms of troops that choose different policies for membership?? probably since they’ll no longer be uniform in fundamental ideals.. will one group recite one Scout Oath and the other a different Scout Oath.. the scouts will be divided and everyone knows what happens when a house is divided; why even go there just to appease a tiny tiny group if people??? totally ridiculous and totally unnecessary since the majority of registered scouts dont want this policy changed.. theirs a reason there’s been no vote of this issue; the answer would be no policy change.. National’s just too worried about lost revenue.. if they go against the will of the majority of the membership they’ll loose far far more than they’ll gain.. no PR’s going to hide the truth from the scouting membership and ultimately members will have their chance to vote when they choose to recharter or choose not to recharter.. there will be an election ultimately… Catholic and Baptists have already said if the membership policy is changed they won’t recharter their troops… how many more. just those two groups far far outweigh any benefit the BSA will realize from changing the membership policy…

  10. On behalf of the Union for Reform Judaism whose 900 congregations across North America encompass 1.5 million Reform Jews, the Central Conference of American Rabbis, with membership of more than 2000 Reform rabbis, I urge the Boy Scouts of America Board of Directors to end the discriminatory ban prohibiting gay scouts and scout leaders into the Boy Scouts of America.

    There was widespread excitement in our movement across North America when we learned that the BSA was reconsidering their policy, yet disappointment at the announcement to postpone the decision. That delay extends the time that the current discriminatory policy is in place. We recognize that deliberate and assiduous review is a part of any policy change; but we urge the BSA to take up the question as swiftly as possible. The cause of equality and justice is an urgent one. Justice delayed is justice denied.

    The promise of the Boy Scouts has always been to develop leadership, foster a sense of responsibility toward others, and strengthen the bonds of community. However, by continuing the exclusion of gay scouts and scout leaders these very goals are undermined. What does it say about leadership to discriminate against our neighbors, loved ones and friends? What does it teach about community to prevent those who may be different from participating in and sharing the values we espouse?

    It is perhaps most concerning when the cost of persistent prejudice against LGBT youth – bullying, discrimination, harassment, and tragically the high rate of suicide to which these too often lead – is taken into account. These young people, so frequently facing isolation in schools and in their family, need more outlets to build community, not fewer. The BSA’s policy of excluding gay scouts denies a population that has a lot to benefit from the Boy Scouts promise.

    That is why, in 1992, the Central Conference of American Rabbis called upon the Boy Scouts to end its discriminatory policy, and the North American Federation of Temple Youth called upon all Reform Jewish youth to divest from and refuse participation in the Boy Scouts of America so long as such discrimination continues. It is also why, in 2001, we recommended that Reform synagogues refrain from sponsoring or housing Boy Scout troops and packs that do discriminate. We look forward to the day we can encourage our congregations to return to their historical role in hosting BSA troops; indeed, we hope that day may be soon.

    Lifting the ban on gay scouts and scout leader would be a major step forward for the Boy Scouts. All people, regardless of their sexuality, are created B’tselem Elohim, in the divine image, and thus have a place in our communities. It would be troubling, however, if the national ban on gay scouts is lifted yet individual troops are permitted to discriminate. At this moment of reflection I urge the Boy Scouts of America to consider not only ending this nationwide ban but also adopting a national non-discrimination policy. That is the only way that we can ensure that no child is prevented from joining the troop of his choice.

    - Rabbi David Saperstein
    Director, Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism

    • I really question the value of what Reform Judaism.. Your out of line.. You have no right to try to dictate what a private organization does in this country anymore than I have the right to say that your form of Judaism has the right to ordain homosexual Rabbis… Your certainly a very curious form of “Judaism”.. I guess you can call yourself whatever you want but I believe your name is very deceptive of who you actually are.. I’ve read about the reform judaism faith.. cult like elements in your faith.. very non-biblical… and using the word Judaism doesn’t make your organization more righteous… Its shameful the stand your taking against the BSA and you should be ashamed of yourself for attacking them.. but God has His ways of bringing the disobedient back into a relationship with Him… It’s a truth; not my opinion.. I’m just a messenger… you can choose to listen or not… You’ve seen the Bible.. Maybe prayerful interpretation will help you to better understand it…

      • Sorry, Wallace – you are the one who is out of line. BSA is NOT a Christian organization!! And perhaps some prayerful interpretation on your part about the whole “Love your neighbor as yourself” commandment would help you to better understand it…

        • I wonder what you specifically disagree with.. Without Christians supporting the BSA the BSA wouldn’t be the organization it is today.. Christians are the backbone of the BSA whether you want to choose to agree with that or not.. Christianity is the truth; if you prayerfully try to understand God will show you the way to a loving relationship with Him.. Are you trying to speak for me and to say that I don’t love my neighbor MT-Momma… Do you think a Christian can love a sinner?? I love myself; I’m a sinner… I don’t think you understand what scouting is all about; what’s it’s mission statement; what’s its true mission?? And exactly how would a homosexual scoutmaster, an atheist scoutmaster, an agnostic scoutmaster fit in with the mission of the Boy Scouts of America?? I lived what the BSA was created for; it was my life experience.. Don’t I count.. Doesn’t my personal experience count.. stealing all of that away from me or from boys today or in the future, is that right.. Do you actually believe a boy is going to join a scout troop led by a homosexual couple, an atheist, an agnostic?? And if they don’t because it goes against their nature to stand making an oath to live a morally straight life; a Godly life while looking at the example of the leadership of his unit and thinking what’s wrong with this picture.. kids aren’t stupid.. I’d of quit, same kid as me today will quit, kids walking the same path in the future will quit.. You won’t understand as boys and girls are different and men and women are different too.. homosexuality, atheism, an agnosticism are revolting behaviors to me but did I ever say I didn’t love people; you said that for me.. Do you think the BSA, my church, the Holy Spirit within me allows my heart to feel that way about anyone; I’ll speak for myself; the truth of my heart is that I’m blessed with a love for my fellow man.. Does that mean that I want Homosexuals to take over the BSA and try to make the scouts and leaders believe their behavior is acceptable to God even though their behavior is in direct conflict to His Word… I do wonder about you MT-Momma.. or maybe as a woman and possibly a mother your just of the nature of being a people pleaser regardless of whether it is in defiance of God’s Word or not.. but if your Godly you can’t choose that path.. Everyone is free to choose to live a life surrendering your own will to follow His as revealed to all of us in meditating on His word, learning His nature and prayerfully surrendering to His will for our lives.. Do you think if I ignore His Word and become disobedient to His Word I’ll find an eternal life with Him one day.. I won’t and you won’t either.. And that’s greater than the BSA or any other earthly thing.. But I won’t surrender to lies to become a people pleaser; He doesn’t call any of us to do that.. I won’t ignore what He teaches us through His Word just to please people and look like I’m in the in crowd and with everyone else on an issue I know the truth about.. How could I love myself then; If I become a liar to what I know is the truth. I couldn’t.. Maybe you can share with me specifically where I’m wrongful in anything I’ve said. I mean wrongful as far as in contradiction to what His Word Says… I’ll speak for myself.. I do love God.. I love His Word… I have the Holy Spirit in my heart.. I do love myself.. and I do love my Neighbor.. Do you think being a Christian has taught me to walk away from the broken man lying on the side of the road even when so many have passed him by? Do you think I’ve ever picked up the broken man or the broken boy and helped them to find healing at a cost to myself? Do you think God blesses Godly men with His love and His Holy Spirit when you don’t take the time to know His Word, prayerfully Know Him and allow His love to fill your heart.. ? My Christian faith doesn’t teach me to surrender to everyone elses will and allow people to beat me away from my relationship with God.. I understand Love… I understand scouting; lived it.. There is a reason for its success and part of it is in the Godly leaders its attracted to run the organization.. I had many many good leaders and growing up scouting was my family and my life and in many ways I owe scouting far far more than I could ever repay… That’s why I’m a leader now.. And my son just earned his Eagle Rank.. And he understands what scouting has meant for himself in his way… I won’t let anyone steal that away without a fight.. Christian’s fight too… I fight for what I believe in.. That’s the character of the man who chooses to become an Eagle Scout… There’s a right and wrong and on the scouting membership policy being changed I know I’m right; can’t be changed.. not fair to all the boys in the program now and to all the boys who have the opportunity to benefit from the program in the future; some in the same ways I did… It’s a man thing; I’d assume most women wouldn’t understand… just truth; call it what you want but truths never change no matter what you call them…. and neither will His Holy Word…

        • Saperstein uses words like discrimination which I take offense to.. Who’s out of line.. Because an organization chooses to follow Biblical principles you don’t say they are discrimination in a way that implies they are wrongful.. That’s wrongful.. If the scouts choose to be a Godly organization, and they do, and they choose to think active homosexuals, atheists, and agnostics shouldn’t become members of the BSA then that’s their business.. You don’t attempt to cast them as discriminatory in the same sense that the discriminate against any race of people; unfair… They discriminate against people who are in conflict with the Scout Oath… Whose unfairly attacked who? Who deserves the apology? Think about what Saperstein has said… read his words closely.. look into what their church has said in the past about the BSA… I’ve read into their organization before… I understand… do you?

      • Wallace, I think you are overstepping the bounds of polite discussion here.

        A scout is reverent. He is reverent toward God. He is faithful to his religious duties and respects the convictions of others in matters of custom and religion.

        It doesn’t mean a scout has to believe what another scout believes. But Scouting, or this comments section, are not the place to be critical of someone else’s religion or religious beliefs, no matter how much you disagree with them.

        Scouting is an organization that welcomes those of all faiths. If you feel uncomfortable with respecting the convictions of others in matters of custom and religion, please prayerfully consider whether you can, with good conscience, follow the Scout Law in this area.

        • Your in title to your opinion.. I disagree.. This is my organization too as I’m a paid member of the BSA and a leader; I have a right to share my opinion on here especially when so many others are heartless in their attacks against the BSA.. Specifically where do you believe I’ve stepped any bounds; did someone set boundaries.. show me the boundaries and I’m sure I’ll find comments that have stepped over the boundaries in what they’ve said against the BSA and their current membership policies.. If you’ve made a comment with regard to the issue and your not a member of the BSA you’ve already stepped over a boundary in my opinion; its not your organization!!! There are people on here attacking the BSA and trying to change something they have no right to change as the BSA is a free and private organization which has chosen to have a membership policy that best serves their mission… If you don’t like it then why would you join??? I have no interest in joining an organization that isn’t Godly… And if they excluded me so what… If you have a better idea for a youth organization form your own based on your own ideals and principles.. I just don’t believe that’s the true purpose of the aggressive militant homosexuals who are trying to take over the BSA to serve their own selfish political and social desires… its a sinful selfish desire and I will defend the BSA… It’s my hearts desire and I believe you should choose to respect my passion for doing so; I wish I didn’t feel I had to and those attacking the BSA would just leave us alone… I’m not afraid to stand for what I believe in… And I would be a liar to myself if I didn’t stand up for what I believe in.. Think that’s the character of an Eagle Scout?? This isn’t a game…

        • I’m good with the Scout Law.. I think others should choose to be respectful of the BSA’s policies and back off.. They said they don’t welcome people who choose to be openly homosexual, atheists, and agnostics then those people should be respectful of that and not join the BSA or if their organization disagrees with the BSA then they shouldn’t charter BSA units… Maybe the BSA will actually look at these discussions.. They should prayerfully consider all factors when making decisions that will effect so many people.. There are truly people who don’t want this policy changed and who will no longer participate in the program if the program chooses to distance itself away from Godly principles… I’ve prayerfully considered all of this and with a good conscience have chosen to fight and defend the BSA membership policy against all the aggressive militant groups trying to attack it… That’s my free choice… If I disagree with a comment on here then I will stand up against it… That’s my free choice… This is a very important issue to me… I have a true right to share my comments; this is my organization…

        • Scouting doesn’t welcome un-Godly faiths.. Godly principles are woven all through the program…

        • Someone said wickams should be scouts?? if you don’t worship the one true God known to us through the Holy Bible then your unGodly.. that’s the foundation of scouting…

        • Walla e –
          Are you saying you believe that only Christians, who worship the Biblical God, are eligible to be scouts?

    • I don’t think the BSA is a good fit for your organization if you feel that way.. build your own youth organization; good luck with that…. Godly parents aren’t mindless…

    • Rabbi Saperstein, I would like to apologize for what Wallace has said here. He truly represents the dark ages underbelly of Christianity. Thank you for persevering in your values.

      Yours in Scouting.

      • Thanks for the confirmation jackmichaelson; I think that’s exactly it .. your thankful for Saperstein persevering in his values and not in God’s; you stand on soft & sandy ground when you stand with a man and a church that’s chosen to be disobedient to His Word.. You’ve made my point for me; don’t speak for me and think you have the power to apologize for me, unnecessary as I don’t apologize; apologize for yourself.. The Reform Judaism Church is a cult and has strayed away from Biblical Principles.. They should remove the name Judaism from their name and choose a name more descriptive of who they are.. Choosing to put Judaism in there name is false; a lie… Anyone that takes the time to understand why they’ve put the word reform in their name will understand that they are being disobedient to Gods Word… Their free choice, God loves freedom but God will patiently woo them back into obedience; in His time and in His way… His Word is full of examples of how He’s done it in the past.. you certainly reveal your true nature when you choose to describe me in harsh ways.. His Word was the same in the dark ages, this age and in all future ages; timeless.. I wonder if you believe your angry words would hurt me.. Their actually confirmation to me that I must be saying things right because your definitely on the wrong side of this issue… good luck with that…

    • I’m glad you lost your excitement…. I hope it continues throughout the month of May and forever more on this issue… but you can choose to change your mind and follow biblical principles.. we all have that free choice…

      • Wallace, keep up the good work. While I don’t equate BSA and Christianity, because of the generic “god” of god and country. And because of Muslims, Mormons, Hindus etc. who are in BSA. I admire your effort to stand strong for your beliefs.

        I also am a Christian and obviously oppose the radical homosexual agenda being shoved down our throats. I am appalled.

        • Well, if by “good work” you mean making Christians sound completely ridiculous, he is doing a good job.

          I keep hearing about this “gay agenda”. Can someone provide a link to it, so I can read it for myself and decide if I agree or not? Or should I just take your word for it that it is really, really bad?

        • Those are links to a self-described Christian group that promotes “traditional values”. Those are links to the straight agenda. I was looking for links to the gay agenda.

        • i dont afiliate myself with a straight agenda as if i’m part of some sort of organized orgainzed militant social group going out and attacking homosexuals, atheists, and agnostics.. the BSA is a private organization with freely chosen policies to meet the needs of fulfilling their mission to serve youth in the best way they know how.. its their call. its a small group within a group who are angry that everyone doesnt bow down and recognize them as being what they want them to be so they set out to fight a battle they knew was going to be there and it is.. ALWAYS will be. it is biblical and biblical is bery important to the majority of people.. over 80% of Americans consider themselves Godly Christians.. these are facts that are selectively ignored by the media who are disproportionately favoring the aggressive militant homosexual agenda.. imagine what the media reporting was proportional with regard to this issue.. their would be one voice opposing this policy to every 1000 voices favoring the freedom of the BSA to make there own policies..

        • equality is not biblical. there will never be equality on earth.. The Bible does teach how leaders treat followers and how followers treat leaders; Scout Law.. but there will never be equality on earth… it isnt part of the truth… His Word really does reveal the truth of everything…

  11. Boy Scouts of America is a voluntary, private organization with the freedom to set its own membership requirements. People outside of a such an organization should not be allowed to dictate those requirements or other policies. It is not my right to tell the DAR, AARP, NAACP, VFW, or other organization for which I do not meet the membership requirements that I should be allowed to join. Several comments on this blog have indicated that under the proposed change, individual chartering organizations would be free to continue defining membership as they see fit and according to their belief system. However, if that happens, those COs and units that choose to continue the existing policy, will have no say on leadership at and staffing of district events, council camps, and national high adventure bases. This will put those units in an awkward situation of having to decide to participate, or not, in activities that may have leaders and staff that are in violation of their belief system and how they define morality. While we already deal with varying belief systems now, this adds a very challenging new dimension in that many of us see homosexuality as a sin and contrary to God’s moral law, and thus a violation of the Scout Oath to be “morally straight”. Additionally, as evidenced by Rabbi Saperstein’s posting above, this likely will not be the end of the push for acceptance. His posting stated, “. . . I urge the Boy Scouts of America to consider not only ending this nationwide ban but also adopting a national non-discrimination policy. That is the only way that we can ensure that no child is prevented from joining the troop of his choice.” Some people and organizations will not be satisifed until all COs and units are made to accept anyone and everyone who wants to join, regardless of their views. Unfortunately, local COs will not have the funds to contest in court the legal challenges to their position. The legal challenges are inevitable in our litigous society. This will force those COs to either change their position in violation of their conscience or to stop sponsoring the unit forcing a pack, troop, crew, ship, or post to find a new CO. That could take time, and it could also make many organizations leery of sponsoring a unit. The result may very well be that no boys (or girls in the case of crews and posts) are able to participate in Scouting for a period of time. What does that do to the boy who is very close to achieving Eagle rank but ages out prior to the troop finding a new CO?

    Respectfully submitted by an Asst. Scoutmaster and father of both an active Eagle Scout and an active Life Scout.

    • I agree completely.. You can”t divide the BSA on some issues while expecting unity in others.. there are times when leaders from other units are leaders of OA Lodges etc. and there will be inconsistency for parents in wondering about the person responsible for their child at times when they may be in district, council, or national events.. the BSA really shoudn’t hand the organization over to any minority group that choises to aggressively attack their moral fabric that unites all of us.. take a national vote if all active and paid members of the BSA.. when you renew your membership you cast a vote?? is there a fear in democracy.. then we all stand up together for whatever the decision.. this is a big issue worthy of that kind of action..

      • Kyle, show me where the World Scouting Organization has said the BSA has to lower their moral standards and allow homosexuals, atheists, and agnostics membership in the BSA? not your biased interpretations slanted to serve your selfish purpose toward trying to create some level of normalcy of homosexual behavior.. show me a written document from their organization saying specifically that the BSA needs to change their policy… and when you can’t, because it doesn’t exist, maybe you’ll be honest and admit the BSA is free to set and operate under whatever policies they feel are necessary to fullfil their Godly mission to boys in the USA… you should be tolerant and nondiscriminating and let the BSA do their thing while going out and building your own youth organization.. except this isnt really about the youth the BSA serves is it.. its about your selfish desires to try to terrorize moral people to accept your immoral beliefs.. that’s never going to happen because your asking Godly people to change their souls and sell themselves out to satan.. 4U… No Thanks!!!

  12. “we already deal with varying belief systems now”

    That’s right. That is why we have the Scout Law. Follow each point, step by step, and you will find a guide for how to get along with people whose belief system is different than yours.

    When you find yourself uncomfortable with someone who is different from you, I suggest reciting the Scout Law to yourself. I find the points “Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Cheerful and Brave” to be the most helpful in these situations. And then like to add on the ending “A Scout respects the convictions of others in matters of custom and religion.” for good measure.

    BSA was founded by on a strong religious and moral platform of American Protestantism. But from the beginning, it was designed to welcome adherents strange immigrant religions, who many Protestants considered non-Christian. In 1911, that was the Roman Catholics. Also, from the beginning BSA was designed to accommodate strange, new domestically-bread spiritual practices, who many Protestants didn’t even think counted as a religion. in 1911, that was the Church of Latter Day Saints.

    The way BSA grew and thrived despite these varying belief systems is embodied in its Chartering Organization structure, and in the values of the Scout Law.

    In 2013, BSA faces new, strange immigrant religions, including Islam. BSA also faces new, strange, domestically-bread spiritual practices that most people don’t think count as a religion, such as New Age movements and spiritual humanism.

    The BSA National Council will now meet in May as a voluntary, private organization with the freedom to set its own membership requirements. It has to decide whether to welcome adherents of strange, new belief systems among us, or not. The choice it makes will shape the future of Scouting in the U.S.

    Will the National Council chose to exclude those different belief systems, as American Protestants wanted to do in 1911? Or will it choose to welcome adherents to these new, different belief systems into the Chartering Organization system, as prescribed by the Scout Law? We will find out in May. The history of BSA predicts for us what the consequences of their decision will be.

  13. truth is Taylor that the aggressive militant homosexuals are a very very tiny group of terrorists thinking that with the help of the media to amplify their hollow and non-biblical words they can control the true moral majority.. when the US was attacked on 9-11 the silent majority woke up and the media wouldn’t dare put down America for fear of being assimilated with the anti-American terrorists.. we still sing God Bless America at all major league baseball games as a result of patriotism being awakened through the media.. cant let terrorists control the American Spirit and dictate or culture.. won’t happen and don’t think that moral majority doesn’t still exist within the ranks of Christian Americans who make up well over 80% of our population.. media hides the truth but can’t change the truth.. just have to keep vigil against terrorists at every level and let them know that there is no secret they they are truly a tiny minority with absolutely no real power in a democracy where we are free to vote on issues of morality and policies and the majority will rule the issue ultimately.. its the American way and i have great faith in the American Free Spirit… be encouraged, remain vigilant, keep faith and stay strong… were winning with truth and revealing truths will never lead to defeat…

  14. The World Organization of the Scout Movement (the organization behind that little purple World Scout Emblem on your uniform) has stated that: “Scouting is an organization that is not exclusive on any grounds of discrimination. The World Organization of the Scout Movement has to stand up for civil and human rights… The World Scout Committee expresses deep concern at the occurrence of violations and discriminations of human rights in the world against persons on the grounds of their race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, sexual orientation, gender identity, birth or other status stresses that human rights and fundamental freedoms are the birthright of all human beings, that the universal nature of these.”

    It is a true shame that all youth of America don’t have a Scouting program (and access to the World Scouting Movement). Sadly the only Scouting option for male youth in America is a Scouting program that is exclusive and discriminates.

    Now in the early years of Scouting in America, there were several other Scouting organizations (National Scouts of America, Peace Scouts of California, Polish National Alliance Scouts, Rhode Island Boy Scouts, United States Boy Scouts, Lone Scouts, and many more). However, once BSA was granted the Congressional Charter in 1916, BSA used the provisions in the charter granting BSA exclusive rights to Scouting name and program, to file lawsuits against all of their rivals. Until they were the only one left standing by 1920.

    The Congressionally granted trademark status makes it impossible to start any organization that is at all similar to the Boy Scouts. If the United States Scouts, bankrolled by William Randolph Hearst could not stand up to BSA’s legal team in the 1910′s, who can do so today?

    The Girl Scouts got around the problem by obtaining their own Congressional charter with similar rights in 1951. But the BSA has been vigorous in going after any organization that uses the word scout anywhere in its name or literature. As recently as 1989, BSA threatened the the small Wilderness Scouts of Blairsville, Georgia. Even the YMCA, who started BSA, can’t use the word scout anywhere in its materials, even though scouts were an important part of the Native American community that the Y Indian Guides were supposed to be emulating.

    It is interesting to note that BSA complains about lawsuits against their membership policies and claim that they just want to be left alone. However, when another group even thinks of using the Scouting program for those children they reject, then BSA has no trouble in suing them. So, when someone says why don’t the “gays start a gay scouting organization?” just point to the Congressional Charter prohibiting such action.

    Let’s open Scouting in America to all youth in American. If the conservative Christians want to have an exclusive camping club that only promotes their ideals, they can do so… but let’s not hijack the Scouting movement and keep it from the youth of our country.

    • we are the BSA.. what the world does is the worlds freedom to do.. the BSA doesn’t allow homosexuals, atheists and agnostics to become members of the BSA.. build another group allowing hiomosexuals, atheists and agnostics to lead your children and join the World Order if you freely choose to do so.. I freely chose to join the Boy Scouts of America because of my values and beliefs and how they align with the BSA; what gives you the right to terrorize and try to hijack my scouting organization away from me.. not the US Constitution, not the Supreme Court of the United States of America.. its selfish desire to steal something that isn’t yours right now.. but your free to have a change of heart and conform to the rules and policies of the best youth organization in the United States.. everyones welcome to join; just gotta follow the rules.. if you can’t then why would you want to join.. nobody in the world can change biblical truths.. moral straightness is defined biblically by God.. the same God the BSA looks toward to bless their organization daily and He will if the BSA doesn’t turn its back on Him… the BSA sets the standard and doesn’t need to follow the world.. were already a Great organization…

        • cwgmpls, pretty obvious your an aggresive militant homosexual, atheist, agnostic supporter by the completely intolerant, discriminating, thoughtless, and anti-American things you say.. I challenged you to show me where the BSA is officially not following “Scouting”. Maybe not in the form of “cwgmpls scouting” but certainly in the way the Boy Scouts of America wants to organize and run the Boy Scouts of America. The BSA has a huge responsibility to run a youth program that protects youth and provides a program that will fulfill their mission; and they do it above and beyond any other youth organization.. Their the best youth organization in the United States whether you want to go along with that or not.. They must be considering the number of evil people that feel its that important to our American culture that they’ve gone on a campaign to try to destroy part of what makes it a quality organization. The enemies against the BSA will fail..They will fail in making the BSA what they want it to be for their own selfish reasons and selfish social agenda.. Before the BSA becomes what they want it will fold and cease to exist… You really should build the youth organization of your dreams; I sense that’s where it will remain.. The BSA doesn’t need the worlds ideas of scouting to operate the BSA.. Have you ever looked at some of the world scouting programs; very different and not nearly the quality.. We had a scout visit our troop from Belgium; a fraction of the program that the BSA offers our youth.. The BSA is an independent and free organization that operates under the US Constituion and no world organizations.. The US Supreme Court agrees with the BSA’s freedom to operate their organization in whatever legal manner they choose and they agreed that the BSA is operating within the laws of the United States of America… Nobody is required to join the BSA.. If your in such disagreement with the Boy Scouts of America I think you should quit based on principles..

        • Wallace — the World Organization of the Scout Movement has stated on many occasions that (and I quote):
          “Scouting is an organization that is not exclusive on any grounds of discrimination. The World Organization of the Scout Movement has to stand up for civil and human rights. The World Scout Committee expresses deep concern at the occurrence of violations and discriminations of human rights in the world against persons on the grounds of their race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, sexual orientation, gender identity, birth or other status stresses that human rights and fundamental freedoms are the birthright of all human beings, that the universal nature of these.”

          If the Boy Scouts of America don’t want to follow these guidelines or ideals (which, as a private organization in America, they have every legal right to do), perhaps they should also remove themselves from the World Organization of the Scout Movement, stop calling themselves Scouts, stop wearing the purple Wold Scout Emblem on their uniforms, stop attending World Jamborees, and simply allow another group that does embrace these ideals to become the central Scouting organization of America. However they don’t. Seems hypocritical and unfair to the youth of the nation they supposedly serve.

  15. militant: [mil-i-tuhnt]
    adjective
    1. vigorously active and aggressive, especially in support of a cause

    A Scout is Obedient: If he thinks rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobeying them.

    A Scout is Brave: He has the courage to stand for what he thinks is right even if others laugh at him or threaten him.

    Yes, I am militant. Boy Scouts taught me to be that way.

    But I hope I have not lost sight of being Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind and Cheerful in the process!

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